Basically a late altar build.
Rax+2 burrows, queue grunts
Build Altar
Get TC as hero.
Before the 2nd dot of nightfall i've got 5 grunts plus a TC and i'm creeping, usually i'm also upgrading to stronghold as well with a mill in the process and a shop. TC prioritizes Stomp.
At tier 2, pick up Pitlord, prioritize Howl of Terror with Cleaving Attack as secondary. Build Beastiary and spirit lodge, upgrade to zerker grunts.
At tier 3, pick up the Tinker and prioritize Cluster Rockets, get bloodlust or healing wards and Tauren. (can go with either shaman or witch doctors, both fit well with what i've been doing, but i lean towards the shaman). I tried it with Spirit Walkers and spirit link and it doesnt seem to give any decent benefits other than being able to rez the few tauren i plan on getting, with Docs or Shaman i havent lost a tauren yet either.
Obviously this starts off slow, but isnt too weak vs rushes i dont think, not since you get a decent ground force.
When facing off against your opponent, Stomp, Howl, Rocket. Focus Fire, Stomp, Rocket (T shift, T Shift, R, ctrl group 2, Shift FF whatever you're gonna FF, go back to stomping and stunning).
I havent tried it on ladder yet, i'm still tinkering with the build order, but i always manage to be upgrading to tier 2 by the 2nd or 3rd dot of nightfall, and expoing soon after tier 2, when i generally only have 2 wyvs or so.
Humans and Undead even can also do this, Humans go MK first, then PL then GT, UD can go CL, then PL, then GT. Banshee's for AMS or Necs for UF, with humans IF and autocast heal plus slow on your opponents makes it almost a better strat for humans than orcs. Havent figured out how to make it work for NE early game with no hero that can mass stun/disorient though.
Anyways before i try this on ladder i was hoping to get some opinions. Obviously it needs to be on a decent sized map with a tavern and a place to expo fairly quick.|||I dont know Ouch, I like the strat and all on paper, but I wonder how you deal with mass air. And your grunt zerker will get killed HARD by dryad/bear me thinks. And how do you easily counter a good harass? When going TC first it is awefull being rushed, and with this buildorder you might get pwnd hard.
Post a replay (just smurf) to show what you mean.|||Mass air would honestly be the biggest problem vs this strat. Against the computer though i tend to get upgrades fairly quick as well, if i dont get upgrades i can tech faster and push to a higher food count, i >should< be able to start after my opponent before mass air comes, with the exception of mass gyro's that is...only air unit that's grossly fast at massing lol.
Howl of Terror starts off reducing enemy damage by 30%, then it's 40%, then 50%.
Cluster rockets hit everything in a decently wide area and stuns for 1 sec. When playing against the computer i've almost always managed to pick up Scrolls of the Beast too.
Bears wouldnt really be an issue, they'll be dealing 50% less damage and stunned half the time. Dryads are immune to all this yes, but take plenty of extra damage from Wyverns.
This is of course in it's testing phase, against a harrassing opponent i'll have 3 burrows and generally 1 decently placed tower, i can also stomp surround.
I'll go ahead and try to test this asap, means i'll have to thumbs down five full maps starting with non-tavern maps and working from the smallest up. Get back to ya's soon on this.
Ouchies|||Quote:
Mass air would honestly be the biggest problem vs this strat. Against the computer though i tend to get upgrades fairly quick as well, if i dont get upgrades i can tech faster and push to a higher food count, i >should< be able to start after my opponent before mass air comes, with the exception of mass gyro's that is...only air unit that's grossly fast at massing lol. Still, mass wyvs, IF'ed Griffs and Dhawks, destro's will pwn you.
Howl of Terror starts off reducing enemy damage by 30%, then it's 40%, then 50%. I think roar, rejuv and slow kinda cancel this
Cluster rockets hit everything in a decently wide area and stuns for 1 sec. When playing against the computer i've almost always managed to pick up Scrolls of the Beast too.
Bears wouldnt really be an issue, they'll be dealing 50% less damage and stunned half the time. Dryads are immune to all this yes, but take plenty of extra damage from Wyverns. Roar. U ma be right about the wyv/dryad comparisson, but i dont think thats valid (as in; there might be potm, firelord, or arhers around)
This is of course in it's testing phase, against a harrassing opponent i'll have 3 burrows and generally 1 decently placed tower, i can also stomp surround.
I'll go ahead and try to test this asap, means i'll have to thumbs down five full maps starting with non-tavern maps and working from the smallest up. Get back to ya's soon on this.
Ouchies
blallalalalalalala|||I got your blahblah right here pal! ;)
http://war3.worldofwar.net/showthread.php?t=36703
Yep i finally got a map i could do it on. Unfortunately i didnt play my best so i couldnt really show what all i wanted to...i didnt even get a chance to get casters...but i did get TC+PL+GT.
I lost lots air units but only 2 grunts...that's not normal for me, it's usually the other way around, but i did say i didnt play my best...or close to my best.
Still, it shows the general idea and the build order.
Ouchies|||Ok dude, I will watch it tomorrow.|||erm, I'm kinda in a hurry so I didn't read it all, but isn't this just a mix of Tillerman's and ChoGal's strat...?|||I dont know IP, i've not seen it/heard of it being used. Here i thought i was actually being creative :unamused: :unamused:
My opponent was left stranded towards the end, but i didnt feel confident enough to push towards his base with what i had at the time, i did camp outside to try to keep him from sending peons out to mine...
Definately not my best game though, keep in mind it's just for showing the strat i >thought< i had come up with...though i guess i'm unorginal lol.
Ouchies|||yeah this is kinda like tillerman's strat. (and kow garl! <3) I wouldnt go tinker.
Im not sure im right, but is the main point of this strat to dominate enemy ground? if you want to do that, get TC with stomp but go panda 2nd and PL 3rd. panda gets haze/bof (duh :D) and PL gets howl. tillerman always used docs too (for stasis) and you said you were going docs anyway. ;o
against an harassing dh, it just gets ugly unless you can stomp surround ><
I would opt for aura first btw. getting aura first is great for any strat (creep, harass, etc.)|||I generally dont get docs, i was just experimenting with the different casters and this strat. Though i think in Mirror vs a WW BM i'll probably start going docs over Shaman for spamming sentry ward.
I dont like Panda, if haze were AoE then i might pick him 3rd over tinker, but it's not.|||Quote:
I generally dont get docs, i was just experimenting with the different casters and this strat. Though i think in Mirror vs a WW BM i'll probably start going docs over Shaman for spamming sentry ward.
I dont like Panda, if haze were AoE then i might pick him 3rd over tinker, but it's not.
yeah but naturally at lvl 2 you get BoF. At lvl 1, BoF does like more dmge than rockets lvl 3... =O
-->also imo, the disabling power of haze > stun of rockets.
but its your strat :D|||My main reasoning for wanting the AoE 1 sec stun from the rockets is in those odd/rare instances when you get a hero channeling an ultimate at your army. Like Starfall for instance.
5 or so hippo's over a PotM makes it hard to line up an ensnare or whatever, but with the AoE effect of Rockets all you have to do is aim it in the general area and fire.
My micro is far, FAR from being good, so having a shortcut like this is almost like a godsend..making it easier to counter those who have better micro and whatnot.
For me the Tinker is my utility fall back for times like those. It also lets me fire off a rocket cluster and in that 1 second i can have my TC chug a healing potion or mana potion for further stunnage/hero survival. Not entirely sure why but lately i've been facing alot of people who focus the crap out of my heroes to the exclusion of my units...and it's always TC or PL, not the tinker...i'm guessing their size? lol|||yeah TC is kind of weak at lower levels, so unless your TC is real high lvl, he's going to try to focus teh bull... stomp ofc teaches him a lesson ;o|||I like my TC stocked with an invul-pot. Invis-pots are great as well for a tc. Especialy when applied before a battle, rush to backline of enemy and go caster-mashing.|||lolol @ caster-mashing! :D|||1. Need more replays of this strat
2. You need to get your butt online so I can play you.|||You could play with/against me sometime, too, I could do with some solo training atm. Aka pGs.RakkauS @ Northrend if you're interested. I'll be away this week and the two weeks afterwards though, so you'd need to catch me this weekend. The earlier the better, I'm way ahead of your time. I'm almost always on, but often afk. Just tell me you're there and either wait a while or tell me what acc you're on @ Nooberoth.
Peace. ~.~|||I have accounts on both azeroth and northrend. Ferrous on both of them.|||Yeah yeah i know lol
I started working finally so i havent had alot of time to play. I'll work on getting some more replays when i can.
Ouchies|||Quote:
My main reasoning for wanting the AoE 1 sec stun from the rockets is in those odd/rare instances when you get a hero channeling an ultimate at your army. Like Starfall for instance.
5 or so hippo's over a PotM makes it hard to line up an ensnare or whatever, but with the AoE effect of Rockets all you have to do is aim it in the general area and fire.
My micro is far, FAR from being good, so having a shortcut like this is almost like a godsend..making it easier to counter those who have better micro and whatnot.
For me the Tinker is my utility fall back for times like those. It also lets me fire off a rocket cluster and in that 1 second i can have my TC chug a healing potion or mana potion for further stunnage/hero survival. Not entirely sure why but lately i've been facing alot of people who focus the crap out of my heroes to the exclusion of my units...and it's always TC or PL, not the tinker...i'm guessing their size? lol
The stun AoEs are a nice touch and i agree you have to have some sort of ranged stun when they channel ultimates ie. starfall/ death and decay else you have to run or get decimated. i had a build order/stat. similar to this but it sucked 1. i did'nt get spellcasters 2. i didn't have the micro needed to pull the stat. off.
well any wayz hope you suceed in developing a new strategy for the orcs that you can use on Ferrous
B2|||Stuns won't help against my dryads or destroyers, ~.-|||That's because Dryads and Destroyers are imba =P|||Only destroyers. Dryads are overrated|||Slow Poison = teh sux!
Only decent orc counter for Destroyers is teh kamakaze! Wyvs counter dryads alright..except mass dryad...|||Cata�s and the cheesy mix of grunts and raiders work aswell vs mass dryad, just pull foucesfired units away when orange in health.|||It was a good thought, but i've come to the conclusion that my way of doing this strat is too slow to be of any good. I'm considering this strat dead.|||nah dyrads are pretty damn imba imo >_<
slow poison + frost arrows and they give waay to little xp. :(
catas own dyrads nicely. just have grunt/raiders in front to block ;o,. wyverns are iffy, ff on wyverns isnt so nice, and pulling ff'ed wyvers back is like impossible b/c of slow effect.|||Quote:
nah dyrads are pretty damn imba imo >_<
slow poison + frost arrows and they give waay to little xp. :(
catas own dyrads nicely. just have grunt/raiders in front to block ;o,. wyverns are iffy, ff on wyverns isnt so nice, and pulling ff'ed wyvers back is like impossible b/c of slow effect.
Ensnared dryads aren't that fast either
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