Saturday, April 21, 2012

Keeping in touch

High everyone gorloc here thought maybe we should get a list of accounts together, plz post account name, realm, and version(roc, tft) thx and here's mine:

ArchmageEternal on Azeroth

TFT|||See the community forum for more details

New to the game and need a hand..

Hi all,

Well I decided to pull our my old copy of Warcraft 3 (RoC). I had only played it client side but thought this time I would try my hand at competing against players.

I began by just playing random people but have encountered some things that I wish to ask....

What is "Creep"? Twice I have been told "Use the Creep" and have absolutly no idea what's going on. :)

I usually play humans, but when I face Undead before I can hardly get anything built before the other players comes at me with a hero and some spiders. These spiders then proceed to massacre my small (usually no more than 5/6 footmen) force, meaning I lose.

Is it better to build lots of smaller units (aka weaker) quickly or to spend more time building a bigger and stronger force. My first game I was too slow and was beaten. My second game was the opposite, bought too many footmen etc and lost.

Is it worth leveling a hero before launching an attack?



Well that is all for now, thank you for your time :)

Full.|||In RoC creeping gives you a substantial boost to your gold income. By fast creeping you level up your hero and gain money to tech faster/get more units.

It sounds to me more or less that you need to practice microing and to get build orders down. Unfortunately...i dont know any build orders for RoC...sorry, but i'm hopeful somebody else will have one to give you.|||Humans are kinda weak in RoC I think... oh and don't worry about these spiders, everyone has problems with them because they are cheap, build quickly, have great damage and hit points.


Quote:




Is it better to build lots of smaller units (aka weaker) quickly or to spend more time building a bigger and stronger force. My first game I was too slow and was beaten. My second game was the opposite, bought too many footmen etc and lost.

Is it worth leveling a hero before launching an attack?




The standard way (I understand you are playing solo) is to make few weak units (footmen and riflemen) to aid hero in creeping. Then proceed to better units. Don't make too many weak units because enemy will out-tech you and win. If you go for best unit at beginning he will come fast and destroy you, because you won't have any army.

In RoC your hero always should be creeping or attacking enemy. Never sit without doing everything. In fight of equal armies, one level more makes big difference.|||hi mate, if u want, we can do some practise 1on1's

i also play RoC only (not FT), just mail me (fzthomas@hotmail.com)|||Here are some random tips that I can give you to maybe help you win -

1) Try to never have an "idle" peasant. You know, the kind that just sits there and doesn't mine or get lumber. The max number of peasants you can have on a mine is 5, so with the others, get lumber! If you need to build a building, get one of the peasants getting lumber to make the building, and then send him back to the lumber when he's done.

2) This tip is an obvious one, but here goes - Depending on your strategy, your build order will be different. For right now, I'll assume that you are getting a Hero to Footmen to Riflemen. So, you should QUICKLY make an Altar then a Farm and a Barracks. As soon as the Altar is up, immediately start making your Hero. Make more farms as you need to, then when the Barracks is up, immediately make some Footmen. You'll be able to tell when you need more Farms, so make some in advance so you don't have to stop making units. When you get enough gold/lumber, make a Blacksmith and start producing Riflemen. Upgrade your Town Hall fairly quickly.

3) It's good to have a lot of units.

4) Creeping is killing the "creeps" on the map, which are the neutral monsters located on the colored spots on the minimap. Green spots are the easy creeps, orange spots are the harder creeps, red spots are the hardest creeps. As soon as you have a hero and one or two units, go to a green spot and kill the monsters. Your hero should be halfway leveled up. After you kill the creeps, go to another green spot and kill more creeps. Your hero should be level 2, or almost level 2. Now, go to an orange creep spot and slowly work your way up the "creep ladder." While creeping, don't forget about your base. Also, you should NEVER lose your hero to creeps, that's bad.

5) Micromanagement is the ability to keep your units alive. Use micro by moving the units with low health away from the battle so the enemy will have to retarget a unit with higher health. While attacking the enemy, try not to focus on the Hero too much. Focus fire on the normal units. If they run their units away, retarget.

6) Crypt Fiends have Piercing attack, so give your Footmen the Defend ability. I think they have Piercing, if they don't ignore this.

Hope I helped some!|||dancing crypt fiend >> foot + defend|||Lolz, if thats true, RoC is just imba as ****. But tFT is better anyway, so I s'pose it doesn't matter.|||mass fiends >> all in RoC

thats the ****ed up thing and the reason that most ladder players choose ud|||In FT, just mass foots with defend against fiends. chances are the fiends will kill themselves just by attacking the footies b/c of the wtfimbapwnageness stats of defend -_- (lol not really hehe ;o)|||a single footy with defend >>> a single wyvern|||Creeping: The killing of the non-player controlled units on the map for gold items and experience. As a Human player on RoC you can have only three different heroes. The Arch-mage is the most popular for several reasons not the least of which is he can �out-creep� most other heroes. Just use Summon Water Elemental, send the WE in to attack the creep first and follow with the AM. Easy enough, and it keeps AM from getting beat up early in the game. Only use that on the green camps. When people talk about green camps they mean the color they are on the mini-map if you are not getting any colored dots on your mini-map try clicking the icon next to it that has a little tent on it and a magnifying glass will come over the tent. Then all the creep �camps� will be shown on the mini-map. The other heroes will be a little slower at creeping, but have other benefits also. With the melee heroes, do this; whichever hero you choose when you fight creep camp LOOK at the mini pictures of all the footmen in the bottom middle window (when they are all selected). NOTICE which of them is taking the most damage and move him back just a few steps if they are melee creep or a few more if they are ranged creep (remember to use Defend.) After he is no longer taking damage you can then move him back in to help kill. This tactic is referred to as �dancing.�

Spider problems: The Crypt Fiends are the grey spiders the undead make. They are ranged so they can focus fire (FF). Focus fire (FF) is having the ranged units all attack one single unit. This is important because if it kills that unit, it removes that unit�s damage from the battle, and gives hero exp. Understand that having all your damage focused on one unit rather than spread out against several will give much better results. Creep dancing is much easier than dancing against a human opponent. The human opponent will not fall for dancing so easy. If the enemy is using Crypt Fiends (spiders) then everyone ASSUMES you have researched Defend and are using it, right? Even with defend it can be tough to beat spiders. **This is Critical! ** Press and hold the Alt key when the battle begins. This will give you an overhead health bar indicator. If one of the spiders� health is down, we have our first target� Now make sure you watch which of your footmen the enemy is focusing on. If he is a new player he will be hitting a few different footies, but if he is sharp he will start hitting your lowest life footie. Try this: Double click the footman that is targeted and move him back, Sometimes this will draw the Crypt Fiends closer to you so your footmen can start hitting them quicker, or sometimes the enemy will break target, both are good. Now make sure you do not chase one Crypt Fiend all over creation trying to take that one out while the enemy is continuing to damage you, that�s a rookie mistake. Use the Holy Light skill to cut down running Crypt Fiends, or use the Mountain King�s stunning hammer to get the kill.

This was an intro to Micro-Generaling your army. If the other player is better than you, he�s gunna whip you. That�s life. But as long as you general your people correctly. These tips will help you beat the guy who plays Undead and gets spiders because he heard it was good. I hope I help you more than confused you. LOL!

Counter UD RodFiendDK

This might seem like a really stupid question...but im really not all that good in ladder games, but here goes:

I get owned every time an enemy Undead player goes DK with rod/Fiends rush.

I play usually Orc and NE, so strats for them please.

With orc, I usually have around 7 grunts and hero (SH) when the attack comes and with NE some 10 archers and hero (PotM/DH). I don't get what i'm doing wrong.|||you may want to consider a better base design. consult the several resources on this forum, try using the 'search' utility.|||here is some feedback from my side - but i'm not that good either

i hate undead and especially mass fiends

as orc i go for FS + (later on TC) and HH/raider (works, but not always)

something that works very well - but its hard to pull off and you need to know in advance that the ud is going for fiends -> TC + some HH for creeping and meanwhile tech to tauren and shaman

TC and tauren own mass fiends (seen several replays of that)

as nelf i suggest DH + (later on PotM) and mass huntz (upgraded as much as possible) and later on some master dotts to cyclone



hope its something you can use - its more a general feedback, not really a rush-counter i think

regards|||Quote:








This might seem like a really stupid question...but im really not all that good in ladder games, but here goes:

I get owned every time an enemy Undead player goes DK with rod/Fiends rush.

I play usually Orc and NE, so strats for them please.

With orc, I usually have around 7 grunts and hero (SH) when the attack comes and with NE some 10 archers and hero (PotM/DH). I don't get what i'm doing wrong.




NE: Go Kotg (entangle ftw) or speedy/mass damage DH with hunts

ORC: Go Fars / TC with grunt raider (ensnare the weak fiends) and some wyvs.|||With orc, stay kinda defensive at tier1, just creep etc. At tier2 when your TC and raiders(with ensnare) pops out, you should have no problem dealing with fiends. Make sure to get a dust of appearance to detected burrowed fiends.|||You have way too much grunts, if you ask me. Make sure you tech sooner to get a 'fast' second hero and tier 2 units like raiders or casters, and don't get more than about 4-5 grunts at once.|||Quote:








and you need to know in advance that the ud is going for fiends




quoted for truth

i remember a time that i was UD vs Orc.. he got far seer and lots of HH without scouting, assuming i was going fiends. I found about 7 HH and the far seer when I came with my mass ghoul/lich rush. it was gg.|||Scout is important!

i did the following a few days ago: i went for DK and 2 fiends and went to the NE's base and retreated immediately.

he obviously taught "another ud massing fiends" - he went DH + huntz and i nicely teched to gnoul/garg :p

As orc, i always try to get to T2 as fast as possible and then get one witchdoc for sentry ward which i try to put on a few tactical spots on the map and in his base (if possible)

after that i go shaman.|||Oh, those darned gnouls! >_>



I think it's a good idea to always (hero-)harass, even if you don't kill anything you will/might disrupt his creeping, force him to build a nerub/arcane tower, detonate wisps, use burrows or militia and draw the initiative a bit your way.|||yeah do a 2 grunt tech, and get raiders + 2nd hero fast, TC preferably. fiends are dead meat with grunt/raider/stomp. ;o|||yeah, a low hp DK early game is really annoying for an UD player|||Quote:








gnouls! >_>




Heh, funny. I have seen this same typo before on these forums.

Thanks for the tips, but actually the real problem is how do I get rid of the mass skeletons from the Rod on Tier 1/2. Dryads don't sound like a good idea vs. fiends.

With orc I guess i could have a spiritwalker or two...but then again they would get horribly blasted by possible UD nuke.|||With NE you have wisps, with Orc... You'll just have to deal with it, if you have your TC out you'll probably end up hitting some skellies with ChainWave.|||If your Orc, and you've got some 800hp sick-ass grunts, 2 slow 12-hitting skellies shouldt pose much of a problem... It gets annoying when there are mass skellies.

I need a good human stragey to stick to, not frozen throne

Give me a good one and i'll work on it everyday, I started playing yesterday by the way. Note: Not frozen throne.|||Ok try this one. Mass casters and Arch-mage. It can be relatively tough at first but I think you will like the results. When you first start out a lot of players use only one hero because it�s easier to keep one alive. My suggestion for this strategy is the Arch-mage (AM.) The first thing you are going to do is get your hero to level 2 using the creep. These are the non-player controlled monsters around the map. Get your hero out as soon as possible and put the first skill point into Summon Water Elemental. Then go kill out two green creep camps. This should give you enough experience to get to level two. Point the next skill point into Brilliance. Brilliance gives and aura that all other units get when they are near your hero that makes their mana levels regenerate faster.

Next you want to �Tech Up.� This is getting the upgrade at your Town Hall to make it into a Keep. After you have �Teched� then build an Arcane Sanctum. When the Arcane Sanctum is up� start pumping out Sorceresses and a couple Priests. You must immediately select the Sorceress and turn �Slow� spell off auto-cast (right click it). Otherwise your sorceresses will use up their mana on casting slow, and will not have enough mana to do Polymorph, the bane of this strategy. When you finally get enough resources to get a castle, buy the �Adept� upgrade for the sorceress and them finally the �Master� upgrade for them. Using two Arcane Sanctums will speed this up. Remember to GET THE SORCERESS FIRST and the upgrades last. That way the Sorcies can have a full mana bar when they are ready to cast Polymorph. This requires some time so you�re going to probably have to get an expansion gold mine early on. Getting an expansion gold mine bringing in gold will speed this strategy up big time. It�s not unusual for a Human player to expand right away in a game because they need a ton of gold.

Why mass casters and AM? Because it will kick assess!! Here�s how you work it. When all of your army is selected press and hold the control button then press the #1 key. This will make it so that whenever you press the 1 key your army will be instantly selected. Pres it twice to put the camera view over them. When they are all selected press the tab key until the �subgroup� is the sorceresses. Another way to sub-select the Sorcies is to click on one of the Sorcies pictures when you have the whole group selected. Anyway you do it, just get it so the Polymorph spell can be thrown. Then with the sorceresses selected pres the �o� button. This tells the Sorcies that you want something turned into a sheep. After you have sub-selected the Sorceresses and pres the �o� and the mouse should turn into the bulls-eye instead of the gauntlet. Then hold down the Shift key!! Make sure you get that right. It�s critical. After pressing the �o� key and then releasing it, and then holding down the shift key, begin clicking on the enemy�s army. Poof, Poof, Poof, they start turning into sheep. Soon the ground looks like Little Bo Peep has found her sheep, and it�s GG time. To finish mop up what�s left of his army and pump out a couple of Mortar Teams to siege his base with. That�s if he hasn�t left the game already.|||Another strategy and abit less micro intensive than the one listed above me as is follows

Build an Altar, 2 farms and a Barracks asap.

Get an Archmage and 4 Footmen

Build a Blacksmith

When that's done start building Riflemen

Tech to Tier 2 ASAP while producing Riflemen and get a Mountain King

Once you have an Arcane Sanctum build a few priests and then a few sorcs (leave slow on autocast)

tech for Tier 3 asap as well, still make a decent amount of riflemen, 6 priests and 6 sorcs are optimal. Add a Workshop as resources allow and get a few Mortars.

Upgrade Priests to Adept for dispel, this is needed against summons and hostile enemy spells. (Faerie Fire, Curse, Bloodlust)

Once in tier 3 start producing Knights to accent your footmen.

Your Footmen/Knights will tank your opponents melee for you, you want to Focus Fire his melee down ASAP using your Riflemen/mortars.

Tip: At the start of battle select all your priests and turn Inner Fire on autocast, wait a few seconds (while you're doing other things, like summoning water elementals, stormbolting/clapping opponents, etc) then turn auto-cast heal back on.

Upgrade sorcs to Adept sorcs, you can go master if you want, but what you want is invisibility. When you can and you see a unit taking heavy damage, cast Invisibility on it and run it out of the fight. This will take awhile of getting the hang of so dont get too frustrated right away.

hope this helps

Ouchies|||If you just got the game, I suggest you play the campaign to get more familiar to it. Find out for yourself what strategies works against what. For example, you wouldn't want to end up with masses of spellcasters against dryads, since dryads are immune to spells.|||one site for you mate => www.battle.net/war3

check out the human race section and read all the tips, strategies, combo's, unit information, ...

after that; do the same for the three other races so you learn to know them (check their units and proporties and stuff)

after that => www.replayers.com and download a lot of replays (use the search, indicate 1on1 and RoC 1.20 and include race HMN -> will give you over 1000 replays of 1on1 games with a human players involved)

watch their replays, check their strats and build-ups and learn!)

thats how i rolled in the game a few months ago.

gl buddy

Need help, vs. Computer, Booty Bay

Hey all,

I have been trying to learn how to play 1v1 matches by playing against the computer on the Booty Bay map.

What I am finding, though, is that even when I set the Computer's ability to Easy, and the game speed to Slow, that I still can't keep up with the computer's micro. Even when I watch replays and try to see what the computer is doing, I can't keep up with its build order and unit management.

Has anyone else run into this? Is there a better way to learn/practice 1v1 matches?

FWIW, I have v1.18 and I usually use the Humans (just because I am most familiar with their unit/tech structure). Thanks for any advice...|||What strategy are you using btw? Nobody can keep up with the computer's micro as it's always perfect.

For Human i trying this:

send all 5 peasants to gold

queue up 2 more

Snag a peasant off the line and build an altar

Snag another peasant off the line and build a farm

Snag a 3rd peasant off the line and build a Barracks

Queue 2 more peasants and rally to gather wood

When altar completes start an Archmage

When the Farm completes start another farm

When the Barracks completes start queueing Footmen (3-4)

(YOu didnt say if you have TFT or not if you do build a shop here)

Build a Blacksmith

Upgrade to Keep as soon as you have the resources

Creep abit using the AM with water elementals and footies (send elementals in first to take the damage)

Right about here your blacksmith should finish, start building Riflemen, 5-6 is good.

Once you're at tier 2 start an Arcane Sanctuary and get the Mountain King

Queue a couple priests and a couple sorceresses (then alternate after until you have 4-5 of each)

Tech for tier 3 asap as well, you're going to want Knights to tank for your rifle/sorc/priest combo.

This is a generic build order for a rather common human strategy, a light wall of melee units to protect rifles, sorcs, priests and mortars when you get them. Mortars can be picked up in tier 3 or you can hurry them and get them in teir 2 if you want to harrass bases.

You basically want to use riflemen and Water Elementals to focus fire everything to death one unit at a time while your melee holds them and your sorcs slow them. Initiate Sorcs are fine, i recommend Master Priests, start off with Inner Fire on autocast, once your army is lit up, switch to auto-cast heal.

With the Archmage you want to get Water Elementals out as fast as possible and add them in with your riflemen, with the Mountain King you want to use Stormbolt and clap. Clap the melee, stormbolt heroes or units trying to flee.

Still waking up atm so i'm fairly certain i'm missing things, hopefully somebody else will chime in with some help as well.|||lol that map is REALLY old. but I do remember playing on it too! kinda like echo ;p|||1mbz0r 3ch05??? b007y b4y 5uxx0r5|||imo on booty bay, u have to creep the middle as fast as possible and you will have an advantage in lvl - from then on, try to put the pressure on his base.

if i play that map as NE, i build a moonwell at the middle and constantly do hit-and-runs|||Try a different map, the CPU always rushes you really fast on Booty Bay, and if you don't creep the middle (read: the enemy does it) you're at a serious disadvantage.|||try ur startign map as a map where 4 players can play...put in a comp on ur team 2v2s r better to srat with make comp same race and copie his exact moves.

or go on battle net update it and play online and ask for training cos i will be glad to help |||Quote:








try ur startign map as a map where 4 players can play...put in a comp on ur team 2v2s r better to srat with make comp same race and copie his exact moves.

or go on battle net update it and play online and ask for training cos i will be glad to help




The CPU has a really crappy build order, don't follow this advice. Best thins is to look for replays from good players (check the forums here, or go to wcreplays.com) and copy the build order from there.|||He's not running a fully updated version guys, the replays here wont do anything for him.

Instead give him some build orders/tips to get the middle faster than the comp?|||If you really wanna be cheap, just build a mass of towers at the midpoint of the map and slowly advance. Comps have a hard time with mass towers.

But, if you really want to learn to play it...

2 Peasants build an Alter and Farm, rest go to gold.

Queue 2 more peasants, 1 for wood 1 for gold. Farm building peasant goes to gold, the altar one goes to wood. Train hero (Paladin as example)

Build a Barracks.

2 More peasants, both to wood.

When Barracks completes, build 2 footmen.

When Paladin and Footmen are both complete, start to creep closest one.

Build 4 more footmen, and then a Blacksmith.

Just keep advancing your tier units. Upgrade when you get the resources and try to creep areas as quick as possible. The Items and experience will help you alot.|||Yeah the comp. build orders work well for its ability to have impecable speed and micro not so well for humans, comp. easy usually don't rush and can't handle a rush so build a few footmen and a hero creep at the center really quickly like not even three min. and then rush draw their forces away from their base and costanly keep more troops coming that helps me but i don't play many 1v1

B2|||In the earlier patches of Frozen Throne and Reign of Chaos the computer doesn't ever attack you on the two islands in the middle. One way to guarantee victory against comp is to only tower your main base and get a Zeppelin and acquire one or two of the center island gold mines. That strategy can't fail because the comp struggles against mass towers.

However if you want to know what it takes to beat the comp you must be brave enough to rush him. You can't out creep him because he never creeps an empty camp and you cannot out build him because the comp can run a 70 food army like it was just a couple of footman. The center creep thing is trying to out creep him, and your build order really doesn't matter because you will prolly not make it to Tier 2 before the game is decided.

He sucks at controlling his hero. On easy mode he only get one hero and you will kill it for him, try to creep jack him if you can. First make whatever shop you have. Then hunt his hero the second the shop is ready. UD get the Rod of Necromancy, then rush. Orc get the Healing Salve, Then rush. Humans get the Scroll of Healing, then rush. Elves get nothing, skip the shop and build an ancient of war in his base while you are distracting with your hero. If things get a little hairy you can fall back goto a shop and get a couple healing pots and then try to creep jack him. Killing his hero a couple of times early will get you exp same as the creeps and keep him from creeping.

If you don't have TFT then its build a barracks, rally point the barracks to you hero (who better be in his base) and power rush his base. If you suck at rushing, this is your chance to improve, if you hate rushing, you gotta play another map, because you are not going to out creep him or out build him on this map. (The mass towers/island thing is the only exception.)

Here are some tips on Hero killing:

http://www.battle.net/war3/basics/herokillers.shtml

Here are some tips on creep jacking:

http://www.battle.net/war3/basics/creepjacking.shtml

Good Luck!|||Quote:




Need help, vs. Computer, Booty Bay




Jesus Christ|||Quote:








Jesus Christ




Seconded.



Here's a real tip: Play the campaigns.

Thinking of trying a diff Strat

I've been goofing around in custom games vs the computer to come up with a different build order and strategy for orcs. What i've come up with probably isnt new other than the build.

Basically a late altar build.

Rax+2 burrows, queue grunts

Build Altar

Get TC as hero.

Before the 2nd dot of nightfall i've got 5 grunts plus a TC and i'm creeping, usually i'm also upgrading to stronghold as well with a mill in the process and a shop. TC prioritizes Stomp.

At tier 2, pick up Pitlord, prioritize Howl of Terror with Cleaving Attack as secondary. Build Beastiary and spirit lodge, upgrade to zerker grunts.

At tier 3, pick up the Tinker and prioritize Cluster Rockets, get bloodlust or healing wards and Tauren. (can go with either shaman or witch doctors, both fit well with what i've been doing, but i lean towards the shaman). I tried it with Spirit Walkers and spirit link and it doesnt seem to give any decent benefits other than being able to rez the few tauren i plan on getting, with Docs or Shaman i havent lost a tauren yet either.

Obviously this starts off slow, but isnt too weak vs rushes i dont think, not since you get a decent ground force.

When facing off against your opponent, Stomp, Howl, Rocket. Focus Fire, Stomp, Rocket (T shift, T Shift, R, ctrl group 2, Shift FF whatever you're gonna FF, go back to stomping and stunning).

I havent tried it on ladder yet, i'm still tinkering with the build order, but i always manage to be upgrading to tier 2 by the 2nd or 3rd dot of nightfall, and expoing soon after tier 2, when i generally only have 2 wyvs or so.

Humans and Undead even can also do this, Humans go MK first, then PL then GT, UD can go CL, then PL, then GT. Banshee's for AMS or Necs for UF, with humans IF and autocast heal plus slow on your opponents makes it almost a better strat for humans than orcs. Havent figured out how to make it work for NE early game with no hero that can mass stun/disorient though.

Anyways before i try this on ladder i was hoping to get some opinions. Obviously it needs to be on a decent sized map with a tavern and a place to expo fairly quick.|||I dont know Ouch, I like the strat and all on paper, but I wonder how you deal with mass air. And your grunt zerker will get killed HARD by dryad/bear me thinks. And how do you easily counter a good harass? When going TC first it is awefull being rushed, and with this buildorder you might get pwnd hard.

Post a replay (just smurf) to show what you mean.|||Mass air would honestly be the biggest problem vs this strat. Against the computer though i tend to get upgrades fairly quick as well, if i dont get upgrades i can tech faster and push to a higher food count, i >should< be able to start after my opponent before mass air comes, with the exception of mass gyro's that is...only air unit that's grossly fast at massing lol.

Howl of Terror starts off reducing enemy damage by 30%, then it's 40%, then 50%.

Cluster rockets hit everything in a decently wide area and stuns for 1 sec. When playing against the computer i've almost always managed to pick up Scrolls of the Beast too.

Bears wouldnt really be an issue, they'll be dealing 50% less damage and stunned half the time. Dryads are immune to all this yes, but take plenty of extra damage from Wyverns.

This is of course in it's testing phase, against a harrassing opponent i'll have 3 burrows and generally 1 decently placed tower, i can also stomp surround.

I'll go ahead and try to test this asap, means i'll have to thumbs down five full maps starting with non-tavern maps and working from the smallest up. Get back to ya's soon on this.

Ouchies|||Quote:








Mass air would honestly be the biggest problem vs this strat. Against the computer though i tend to get upgrades fairly quick as well, if i dont get upgrades i can tech faster and push to a higher food count, i >should< be able to start after my opponent before mass air comes, with the exception of mass gyro's that is...only air unit that's grossly fast at massing lol. Still, mass wyvs, IF'ed Griffs and Dhawks, destro's will pwn you.

Howl of Terror starts off reducing enemy damage by 30%, then it's 40%, then 50%. I think roar, rejuv and slow kinda cancel this

Cluster rockets hit everything in a decently wide area and stuns for 1 sec. When playing against the computer i've almost always managed to pick up Scrolls of the Beast too.

Bears wouldnt really be an issue, they'll be dealing 50% less damage and stunned half the time. Dryads are immune to all this yes, but take plenty of extra damage from Wyverns. Roar. U ma be right about the wyv/dryad comparisson, but i dont think thats valid (as in; there might be potm, firelord, or arhers around)

This is of course in it's testing phase, against a harrassing opponent i'll have 3 burrows and generally 1 decently placed tower, i can also stomp surround.

I'll go ahead and try to test this asap, means i'll have to thumbs down five full maps starting with non-tavern maps and working from the smallest up. Get back to ya's soon on this.

Ouchies






blallalalalalalala|||I got your blahblah right here pal! ;)

http://war3.worldofwar.net/showthread.php?t=36703

Yep i finally got a map i could do it on. Unfortunately i didnt play my best so i couldnt really show what all i wanted to...i didnt even get a chance to get casters...but i did get TC+PL+GT.

I lost lots air units but only 2 grunts...that's not normal for me, it's usually the other way around, but i did say i didnt play my best...or close to my best.

Still, it shows the general idea and the build order.

Ouchies|||Ok dude, I will watch it tomorrow.|||erm, I'm kinda in a hurry so I didn't read it all, but isn't this just a mix of Tillerman's and ChoGal's strat...?|||I dont know IP, i've not seen it/heard of it being used. Here i thought i was actually being creative :unamused: :unamused:

My opponent was left stranded towards the end, but i didnt feel confident enough to push towards his base with what i had at the time, i did camp outside to try to keep him from sending peons out to mine...

Definately not my best game though, keep in mind it's just for showing the strat i >thought< i had come up with...though i guess i'm unorginal lol.

Ouchies|||yeah this is kinda like tillerman's strat. (and kow garl! <3) I wouldnt go tinker.

Im not sure im right, but is the main point of this strat to dominate enemy ground? if you want to do that, get TC with stomp but go panda 2nd and PL 3rd. panda gets haze/bof (duh :D) and PL gets howl. tillerman always used docs too (for stasis) and you said you were going docs anyway. ;o

against an harassing dh, it just gets ugly unless you can stomp surround ><

I would opt for aura first btw. getting aura first is great for any strat (creep, harass, etc.)|||I generally dont get docs, i was just experimenting with the different casters and this strat. Though i think in Mirror vs a WW BM i'll probably start going docs over Shaman for spamming sentry ward.

I dont like Panda, if haze were AoE then i might pick him 3rd over tinker, but it's not.|||Quote:








I generally dont get docs, i was just experimenting with the different casters and this strat. Though i think in Mirror vs a WW BM i'll probably start going docs over Shaman for spamming sentry ward.

I dont like Panda, if haze were AoE then i might pick him 3rd over tinker, but it's not.




yeah but naturally at lvl 2 you get BoF. At lvl 1, BoF does like more dmge than rockets lvl 3... =O

-->also imo, the disabling power of haze > stun of rockets.

but its your strat :D|||My main reasoning for wanting the AoE 1 sec stun from the rockets is in those odd/rare instances when you get a hero channeling an ultimate at your army. Like Starfall for instance.

5 or so hippo's over a PotM makes it hard to line up an ensnare or whatever, but with the AoE effect of Rockets all you have to do is aim it in the general area and fire.

My micro is far, FAR from being good, so having a shortcut like this is almost like a godsend..making it easier to counter those who have better micro and whatnot.

For me the Tinker is my utility fall back for times like those. It also lets me fire off a rocket cluster and in that 1 second i can have my TC chug a healing potion or mana potion for further stunnage/hero survival. Not entirely sure why but lately i've been facing alot of people who focus the crap out of my heroes to the exclusion of my units...and it's always TC or PL, not the tinker...i'm guessing their size? lol|||yeah TC is kind of weak at lower levels, so unless your TC is real high lvl, he's going to try to focus teh bull... stomp ofc teaches him a lesson ;o|||I like my TC stocked with an invul-pot. Invis-pots are great as well for a tc. Especialy when applied before a battle, rush to backline of enemy and go caster-mashing.|||lolol @ caster-mashing! :D|||1. Need more replays of this strat

2. You need to get your butt online so I can play you.|||You could play with/against me sometime, too, I could do with some solo training atm. Aka pGs.RakkauS @ Northrend if you're interested. I'll be away this week and the two weeks afterwards though, so you'd need to catch me this weekend. The earlier the better, I'm way ahead of your time. I'm almost always on, but often afk. Just tell me you're there and either wait a while or tell me what acc you're on @ Nooberoth.

Peace. ~.~|||I have accounts on both azeroth and northrend. Ferrous on both of them.|||Yeah yeah i know lol

I started working finally so i havent had alot of time to play. I'll work on getting some more replays when i can.

Ouchies|||Quote:








My main reasoning for wanting the AoE 1 sec stun from the rockets is in those odd/rare instances when you get a hero channeling an ultimate at your army. Like Starfall for instance.

5 or so hippo's over a PotM makes it hard to line up an ensnare or whatever, but with the AoE effect of Rockets all you have to do is aim it in the general area and fire.

My micro is far, FAR from being good, so having a shortcut like this is almost like a godsend..making it easier to counter those who have better micro and whatnot.

For me the Tinker is my utility fall back for times like those. It also lets me fire off a rocket cluster and in that 1 second i can have my TC chug a healing potion or mana potion for further stunnage/hero survival. Not entirely sure why but lately i've been facing alot of people who focus the crap out of my heroes to the exclusion of my units...and it's always TC or PL, not the tinker...i'm guessing their size? lol






The stun AoEs are a nice touch and i agree you have to have some sort of ranged stun when they channel ultimates ie. starfall/ death and decay else you have to run or get decimated. i had a build order/stat. similar to this but it sucked 1. i did'nt get spellcasters 2. i didn't have the micro needed to pull the stat. off.

well any wayz hope you suceed in developing a new strategy for the orcs that you can use on Ferrous

B2|||Stuns won't help against my dryads or destroyers, ~.-|||That's because Dryads and Destroyers are imba =P|||Only destroyers. Dryads are overrated|||Slow Poison = teh sux!

Only decent orc counter for Destroyers is teh kamakaze! Wyvs counter dryads alright..except mass dryad...|||Cata�s and the cheesy mix of grunts and raiders work aswell vs mass dryad, just pull foucesfired units away when orange in health.|||It was a good thought, but i've come to the conclusion that my way of doing this strat is too slow to be of any good. I'm considering this strat dead.|||nah dyrads are pretty damn imba imo >_<

slow poison + frost arrows and they give waay to little xp. :(

catas own dyrads nicely. just have grunt/raiders in front to block ;o,. wyverns are iffy, ff on wyverns isnt so nice, and pulling ff'ed wyvers back is like impossible b/c of slow effect.|||Quote:








nah dyrads are pretty damn imba imo >_<

slow poison + frost arrows and they give waay to little xp. :(

catas own dyrads nicely. just have grunt/raiders in front to block ;o,. wyverns are iffy, ff on wyverns isnt so nice, and pulling ff'ed wyvers back is like impossible b/c of slow effect.




Ensnared dryads aren't that fast either

ehh i need help!!!! Focus FIre?

ok so lets say i have about about 12 foots....

in a bbattle wood u Attack move? or would u FF...

nost of the time when i FF i find my self getting owned when my melee units are running around the battlefeild like crazy...

plz help...

im not noob its jsut that ive always been doing this

Thank You.

v :|||You attackmove in front of 'em, then dragselect groups of 3-4 footies and have them focusfire seperatly.|||Don't FF w/ melee unless you know you can successfully kill it.|||but if i dont ff then most of the time i juust find myself makin his army weak but not killin them.........|||Quote:








but if i dont ff then most of the time i juust find myself makin his army weak but not killin them.........




But if he can micro, he'll just make your army chase after one unit while he manages to weaken/hurt you. Range is the best for FFing.|||Quote:








ok so lets say i have about about 12 foots....

in a bbattle wood u Attack move? or would u FF...

nost of the time when i FF i find my self getting owned when my melee units are running around the battlefeild like crazy...

plz help...

im not noob its jsut that ive always been doing this

Thank You.

v :






the problem with that is that your units are melee and slow

that is the worst thing to FF, because that unit will keep running while you are being killed, best thing is attack move, but then again it depends what you are countering|||erm, foots aren't slow..unless you're talking about defended foots. and foots are more effectively used with an MK for bolt-surround.|||Quote:








erm, foots aren't slow..unless you're talking about defended foots. and foots are more effectively used with an MK for bolt-surround.




When ever i play humans, i use MK bolt to stun and then foot surround but foots just don't have the speed or damage to effectively FF riflemen can but not much better knights are the ones to use or Slow

B2|||After some weeks I noticed that they come withthe same questions. And again, and again, and again.



I'm oficially out of this out of the forum. Again.







Just tell in what part of the game you'll need 12 foots.|||Quote:








After some weeks I noticed that they come withthe same questions. And again, and again, and again.



I'm oficially out of this out of the forum. Again.







Just tell in what part of the game you'll need 12 foots.




Dude, there is no need to announce your eight departure.



But you are right, btw |||You should never ff with melee unless u are either:

a)surround ff (this works well agenst hero's )

or b) fighting someone with horible micro skills( )

frost nova?

how much dam does frost nova do to the target?

it says (not usre) 100 for lv1 but i think it does more?

????

and when u do hero nuking with ud its supose to be coil/nova/pale but wouldnt dl swarm do more dam than impale?



idk im a noob|||just curious how much money do u win for winning the world w3 torney(im not sure if thats wuts its call)|||Quote:








how much dam does frost nova do to the target?

it says (not usre) 100 for lv1 but i think it does more?

????

and when u do hero nuking with ud its supose to be coil/nova/pale but wouldnt dl swarm do more dam than impale?



idk im a noob






go to www.battle.net/war3 and check out the undead race and the detailed descriptions.

http://www.battle.net/war3/undead/units/lich.shtml|||About swarm/impale:

At high levels (ie lvl 7-6-5 dk lich dl/cl or something), swarm is probably better, and it also serves as antiair. However, impale already owns at low levels (right when you have the cl, at lvl 1), plus it pwns ground, hence the name 'AoE-Stormbolt'.

In the end, its just your personal preference. For FFA, where mass Air & highlvl heroes are common, dl is arguably better, but in solo you can more or less choose, though cl seems to have the lead atm.

'coilnovaswarm' is just an expression for imba undead nuke, some/many people say it when the mean cl 3rd.

can any onw help me on dota stretgy?

I ned help on dota allstar. If anyone can post some strategy. Please do it|||Quote:








I ned help on dota allstar. If anyone can post some strategy. Please do it




This, nor any other forum on the site gives strategy for DOTA, go to their official website.

dk's aura

i see lot of ppl using dks aura second to coil but i always perfer pact

can anybody tell me y the aura might be beter?



if u have a group of units that have non autocast spells is there a way to cast them very fast by urself|||the aura is usually 2nd hero point because it affects more units and increases speed and regeneration and so over all can provide more healed hit points than pact. also if you destroy your army in the middle of a battle you can't use pact anymore and now you have just your hero thats about to die.

B2|||Quote:








if u have a group of units that have non autocast spells is there a way to cast them very fast by urself






Hold shift before hitting the hotkey for the spell, then click as fast as you can on units.|||The movement speed increase the aura gives is very useful, it makes it a lot easier to micro and 'dance' fiends, who aren't too mobile by themselves. And the DK himself becomes practically unkillable, because he can run away from anything.|||Is the movement speed on Unholy aura better than endurance?|||Unholy Aura

+10% movement, +0.5 HP/sec.

+20% movement, +1 HP/sec.

+30% movement, +1.5 HP/sec.

Endurance Aura

Movement Speed +10%, Attack Rate +5%

Movement Speed +20%, Attack Rate +10%

Movement Speed +30%, Attack Rate +15%

nope they're same|||But DK is mostly 1st hero, so aura DK > TC.

sell game currency

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we try to maintain a pleasant and relaxing atmosphere where all can play comfortably.|||BbbbbbbbbbbbBAN-to-the-bone.|||Shoo! Be gone, fiend!|||banned and closed

Question

Thank you!|||Its already released.

Case closed.|||It has already been released.

You can dowload via Battle net, or if you do not have battle net acces, try the stand alone patch at

http://www.blizzard.com/support/?id=mwr0744p

need help...

Can anyone enlighten me on the followings...Thanks.

1) different between Strength and Damage and wat is the effects.

for e.g. +30strength compared to +30 damage, which is better?

same goes to +10agility and +10%attack speed.

Thank You.|||thats quite a good question you got there :p

i think strenght is a general quote and refers to both damage, armor, power, ... while damage is only referring to the damage output the attack does? I think... but i'm not really sure to be honest.

Looking forward to a pro-player clearing this up ;-)|||Strength ups your hp by 25 points per 1 point of strength, if I remember correctly. If your hero is a STR type of hero, each point will also increase his damage by 1.

So if you have a Strength hero, and you have +30 strength he'd have bonus HP and dmg.

Agility adds some number to attack speed, I don't remember how much per point of agility. So for example every two points of agility give +1 armor and +3% attack speed - that gives +3 armor and +9 increased attack speed(ias).

When you get bonus ias from an item, such as gloves of haste - it gives the entire bonus, not like agility that gives a given number.

Is that clear enough? Using just examples, non of my numbers are true, except for the STR part.

P.S. Strength also boosts hp regeneration.|||Thanks for the help...

just to confirm...

e.g. say a hero that has the following bonus... str +3 agi +1 int +2

1) it is almost useless to get a agi item for the above hero?

as the bonus will not be significant...correct?

or

2) it is good to get some agi item to boost it up the agility?

which is which?

Regards.|||1. No the bonus comes from just the item, not judging from the hero's ability; in other words if he has 1 agil, and gets +3 agil from an item its worth it.

2.Boots of Quel'thalas are good as they add attack speed and armor.|||Items that give an agility bonus are close to useless for heroes that don't have agility as their main attribute, if you ask me. The attack speed bonus is hardly noticeable (unless you add 20 agility or something, and even then it's not like you attack twice as fast) and the armor bonus can also be obtained through other items, like rings of defense (or whatever they're called)|||Ring of Protection. Agi boosters for non-(imba)agi-heros are not useless. Better attack speed is always welcome, and some armor is good to. Btw, play 1v1 on phantom grove, and u have a +20 armor likely...

That map is so weird.

Favorite Strategy for hero wars

I am a big fan of hero wars i love that map alot and im new here.



Who is the best character to be on light and on dark and what do u do to make them the best?|||I think the 'Blast-O-Master' hero is the best for the light and that the 'Blademage' is the best for the dark.

DotA questions...

1) any strategies to counter 2 heroes (e.g. sniper and lina ) both equip

the rapier... find it very difficult coz by time u get near...already die...

2) sange and yasha maim effect slow ppl in term of what?

attack speed?, movement speed? or everything?

rreally need some guide especially for qs 1

thanks in advance...|||We don't discuss DOTA in this or any other forum.

tt|||lol cya|||Dota sucks well i mean no offence if u liked it

hero line wars secret?

in the roc edition, how do you get the pyro hero? he's a guy wearing black with flaming hair.|||Go to the Mercenary camp. You can get him there. But only after first night. gl.|||is he only available for a short time? and how much does he cost?|||He's only available for like 20 seconds. So right after the first night ends, go right to the mercernary camp and immidiately click on the thing that looks like a green headhunter. thats him. This guy's damage is insane, especially against buildings. pierce damage > fortified armor.|||some guy got him immediatly without the night ending, because it never did end. he said something about hte left side, but didn't work

Need help on my undead strategy

I started playing wc3 a few days ago and need help with an undead strategy.

Watch my replay, what do I do wrong, is it a good strategy?

The strategy on my replay: make 12 gargoyles and fully upgrade them, then attack with them plus all my ghouls.



Please tell me all the newbie mistakes I do.

Im playing TFT 1.20c(just bought it)|||thats not a strat, what you had dne is called "mass them all".|||Massing = a strat.|||and especially in RoC massing is a strat|||1: I tried a new tactic today, cryptlord + 5 beetle + 12 ghouls + rod of necromancy. Works sometimes, but not always. Any tips on how I can improve my crypt lord rushing?

2: My friend build archers only, lots of them, then he places them behind like 6 ancient protectors. In the end he buys 2-3 mountain giant and attacks me. How can I counter that tactic? How can I kill his archers behind the protectors?

3: I never buy slaughterhouse or temple of the damned in a game, I stick to ghouls, fiends and gargoyls, is that newbish of me? Is it a "must" to build other units than those?|||Quote:








1: I tried a new tactic today, cryptlord + 5 beetle + 12 ghouls + rod of necromancy. Works sometimes, but not always. Any tips on how I can improve my crypt lord rushing?

2: My friend build archers only, lots of them, then he places them behind like 6 ancient protectors. In the end he buys 2-3 mountain giant and attacks me. How can I counter that tactic? How can I kill his archers behind the protectors?

3: I never buy slaughterhouse or temple of the damned in a game, I stick to ghouls, fiends and gargoyls, is that newbish of me? Is it a "must" to build other units than those?




Dunno bout the first one.

Keep hit and running with units, don't let him get the APs. If he does anyways just build some meat wagons and stay back some while they destroy the APs.

You should atleast get slaughterhouse, temple of the damned is okay but not really required. slaughterhouse has statues (healing/mana) which turn into destroyers which > all.|||Ghouls, Abombinations and Meat Wagons all share attack upgrades, so it is a really good idea to get the Slaughterhouse. While you have the slaughterhouse it's a good idea to get statues as well. Have about 4, 2 with autocast heal and 2 with autocast mana regen.

With ghoul/garg it's advised to get the Deathknight first and then the Dreadlord second. Third hero can be of your choice. The reason for this is the dual aura's. Vampiric aura keeps units alive in combat longer.

Necromancers and Banshee's are the two most underrated casters in the game IMO. However keep this in mind. Skeletons benefit from the attack and armor upgrades that ghouls and Abombinations do. Curse reduces the ability of enemy units to hit by 35%, add Cripple from the Necromancer and they're attacking very very slowly as well.

Ouchies|||if he's turtling just do necrowagons.

(necrowagons = 2-3 meat wagons and 10-12 necromancers. mass raise dead ftw. you may find ghouls helpful.)

Necrowagon and other assorted strats

atm i dont have time to search thread by thread to find the Necrowagon strategy, so i'm gonna ask all the questions i can think of on it. Also, i figure with the mature posters we have here this can be a good info thread for any newbies who might read it.

This is obviously a ghoul/necro/meat wagon type strat, i figure shee's and stat's for healing and mana regen as well. My questions are as follows:

1) Which heroes are used? DK/DL/Lich?

2) Is this supposed to be done hella fast?

3) This strat seems weak vs air, aside from coil/nova/swarm and skeletal magi, how do you counter air? By getting gargs too?

4) How many necro's, shee's, wagons and stats are recommended?

5) How fast should upgrades be gotten aside from casters? (IE; attack/armor)

6) 2 healing scrolls and 1 scroll of prot on each hero are the recommended items as well as healing/mana pots?

7) When/how fast should the UD expo with this strat?

8) Do you continue with dual aura crack ghouls or switch to abombs, or do you get a decent mix?

9) Are fiends used in this strat at all(except as possible counters)?

10) Are rods of necromancy used only early game or do you continue to use them throughout with this strat?

11) Which race(s) does this strat work best against?

Next strat:

Fiend/Destro tech.

1) What race(s) is this strat used against?

2) What are the >recommended< heroes?

3) How fast should you be teching with this?

4) Depending on the above answer, how vital are attack/armor upgrades for this?

5) What's the recommended unit assortment with this strat?

I cant think of any other undead strats other than the fiend to wyrm tech that started way way back in RoC...is that still viable?

Oh yeah...what neutral heroes compliment the above strats best if at all? And..what other undead strats are there that i'm not aware of (I just listed all i am aware of, aside from a ghoul rush)?

Thanks,

Ouchies|||AFAIK, fiends go well with DK/Lich for focus firing purposes. i always teched moderately fast, but not really fast, after a fiend or three. Attack upgrades are nice, but I never got a lot of them. For the rest, it's mostly fiends/stats/destros.

I'm definitely not the UD pro (or pro in any field of play, for that matter) but this is what I know of the subject! :D|||Warning: All what I post in this threat is based on my own experience. Thank you.

Fiend/Destro strat:

1) I use it vs Orc (not always)

2) DK and Lich (Lich orb)

3) Tech after 3 fiends. Faster is recommended, however, keep in mind u need 210 wood just for tech, 40 a fiend.

4) Since you use units of the same type, upgrading can be useful. Depends on the enemy's units. vs mass bats, dont upgrade, but vs raiders + grunts take armor.

5) Sorry, this question could be answered by someone else. Cause I don't understand 'unit assortment'. My fault.

I advice to take non-tavern hero's. DK + Lich are required in my opinion, and when I take 3rd hero, its or DL or CL.

I wouldn't use the wyrm-strat. A good enemy sees what you're up to. Countered easily.

Strats for t1, or any tier? t1, u can also go fiends. However, fiends are expensive for 1v1, as you probably know. Sometimes I go ghouls + banshee. Curse is an underestimated spell, and so is Anti-magic shell. I remember someone on this forum using banshees too. Maybe he's more succesful at uploading replays. .|||I laugh when he masses wyrms and I hex the sh|t out of all of them. (ofc he has no destros :P)|||Try to build slaughterhouse and temple as fast as possible, then you build 2 wagons and 4 necros, try to upgrade your wagons and necros as much as you can, upgrade skeletons, upgrade whatever you can.



Then you attack, this tactic worked for me in two matches in a row. Dont take this tactic serious, im not a pro.

Help!! My Wyverns Suck!!

Hey can someone tell me why my Wyverns suck so badly? People like Wyverns, and they seem to have good luck with them, but mine ALWAYS suck. I�m sure the Wyverns themselves don�t suck, just the way I use them. I play the Small Free For All and I have never had any luck controlling the gold situation and starving the other players with my Wyverns. Because of this, and due to the fact that I play random, when I draw Orc -- I make Bulls, Spirit Walkers And Shaman!! Like a total newb because I know I will suck even worse if I make Wyverns. I heard Fray say that with Wyverns you got to move some land units up on the spiders to draw their fire then bring in the Wyverns, then they can own the spiders, but I need help against all races. (Batriders for anti-air with the Bulls btw, but I suck at FFA Orc so what differnce does it make... LOL) Tell me how YOU make the best use of your Wyverns PLZ! How many do you make? Do you keep them in one group? Two groups? Use them with a hero? Stuff like that...|||lol...

Wyverns die instantly to piercing attacks, but the reason they are so ****in ownage is because of their insane damage. Youre right that you have to draw fire away from them, but other things you can do is disable the other persons army whilst your wyverns pick them off (which goes fast with their dmge). eg: use warstomp and stun ranged units and then ff them with wyverns and watch them die :D always try to sneak up or draw fire away from them. They are almost always better in masses. You would have to have at least the same amount of wyverns as he has ground ranged units (or w/e your attacking) for you to win the fight, unless you have high level stomp and other massive aoe spells to take down rifles, fiends or w/e fast. hope it helps. ;o|||Wow dude! I cannot believe I didn�t think of the stunning thing. That idea is so freaking awesome I can�t believe it. Maybe like a stasis trap Wyvern combo or the TC is a kool idea too. TY for that!. I must try to think of more ways to keep the damage off the birds. =) Now what about air vs. air since a lot of air is piercing damage do you just always avoid it and go to something else to counter? FFA games don�t always contain a lot of air, but sometimes you must counter a heavy air opponent or you�re gold is gunna be cut off by him. (This is what I always tried with my wyverns b4 and struggled with, and wasted resourses.) Please advise.|||Sorry I had to post again, but I'm pumped! Stun breaks targeting so they can't easily focus down the birds... That is so brilliant! LOL. Purchasing Inferno Stones at the Marketplace is another idea. WOOT!! Thanks again!|||Quote:








Sorry I had to post again, but I'm pumped! Stun breaks targeting so they can't easily focus down the birds... That is so brilliant! LOL. Purchasing Inferno Stones at the Marketplace is another idea. WOOT!! Thanks again!




I don't think you can buy inferno stones from the marketplace.|||ya u could if someone else dropped it during the game|||You could also try adding in a Pit Lord. Run him directly into the ranged units and cast Howl of Terror. At the first point it reduces attack damage by 30%, at 2nd it's 40% and at 3rd it's 50%.

If you're going to use Witchdoctors get a bunch and abuse the sentry wards...light up the entire map if you're able to. Keep one in your base and expo(s) as well to keep shades and WWing BM's out.

But yeah send in your melee first and have your wyverns hang back, maneuver your heroes and casters for best possible advantage and then bring the wyverns in.

Ouchies|||if it may be of any help: try a raider/wyverns combination

i often did this when i played Orc -> then u got ground and air units / they both come out of same building (dual beastary required ofcoz) / you got an army to quickly kill enemybuildings and you have ensnare (ensnare units and then ff them with wyvern)

just try it out!

gl|||I bought two Inferno Stones on Deathrose last night. http://www.battle.net/war3/images/ma...rose-3dmap.jpg

600 gold though so it kinda spendy. It's a funny story too because I went over there to hit Blue Players expansion and stopped by and found both the Inferno Stone and the Ring of Regeneration for 375 gold for sale. The Ring of Regeneration is the most tits item in the game for BM imho �cause he can harass and mess around out on the map by himself without having to carry the Healing Salve. He is always at full life bottle when I need him so I love it. I have all the spots that the ring can drop marked on all the FFA maps. AND IT STACKS!!! Anyway here�s how it went. Purple was a Tower Newbie playing NE at top right so I ignore him. Blue (Humans) is on my left and Green is diagonal (UD). Since Purple isn�t going to win I ignore him, he�s not a threat until he gets Chimeras so I focus on Blue Player. After I hit Blue�s expansion I go back to base for a few minutes and get another TP and then Green leaves the game. I know it�s between me and Blue so I decide to press the attack rather than level my second hero (TC) using the creeps. That way I can hurt Blue and then be ready to stop Purple from massing Chimeras. With just my BM and a level 2 TC and some Grunts, Head Hunters and Catapults I roll towards Blue�s Base. When I stop by the Marketplace, there is another Inferno Stone for sale!! I get it and become way over confident now. I roll up on Blue like I own the place and he�s got Mass Casters. So I throw the Inferno on them and proceed as normal. But� and this is the reason for my story. The Infernos are timed with a delay. LOL. So you have to wait to summon the second one!! AND� There is a Mana Fountain right near the base on Deathrose so brand new Sorceresses have the sheep skill in just a couple seconds!!! He waxed everything except my BM and I was never able to recover. I got beat by Blue ;-( I sat there and wondered what the hell just happened there? Anyway the Inferno Stone is expensive and you can�t spam them. And I suck. |||Actually...if you had put one on your BM and the other on your TC you could have put the both of them out. If the items are on different heroes they dont share a timer.

Ouchies|||Since wyverns are pierce they basically pwn any air there is. However, there are some dangers such as gargs. All you to do is add a couple bats. Wyverns and bats is one of the best air combos by far, bats kill dangerous units while wyverns finish anything off, which goes extremely fast due to their high dmge. Even a frost wyrm will go down in 3 seconds to wyvern ff.

Im getting totaly owned somehow?

Yo Guys!

I got some kinda problem, i think i know the game better than this person i play, and i know im faster than him - and i got better micro/macro.

Then guess what of an shock i got when i got totaly owned by this person who never ever had beaten me before. I got one expansion and had just destroyed his. Afterwards he made a counterattack, i had like 70,80 units while he might have 50-60. Oh, well, i think this is the thing. He got like some footmens, some priests, 3! Heroes..omg, i feel more awkward the more i think of it. Somehow i understand while writing this. He got totaly better units, i just feeled like i outnumbered him because i got lots of ghouls and crypt fiends. Well, he got some rifelmens and a couple of mortars, but i still though i would outnumber him, lose some in the deal and then rebuild with all my money. But no, i got owned. I lost all my units and he had a mortar left and finished my base. Grr, arr mighty pirate!! I got so freaking angry.

Anyway, to the problem. I would like to learn more about unit counters. I would like to learn some basics so good that i wont forget them any easy.

I know some stuff like medium armor takes extra damage from piercing, right? And heavy from magic ? And unarmored from siege ? And so on with light armor, but im not sure of that one?

But that might not be needed if someone could help me up with some basic counters.

This guy plays human. Ive got no standard race, cause ive played rather much with all of them. But if i have to choose, i go Orc.

Then for Orc, What should i do if someone goes:

1. Footmens

2. Footmens, Riflemens

3. Footmens, Priests

4. Footmens, Sorcs

5. Riflemens, Priests

6. Riflemens, Sorcs

Or rather than making all theese combination , what units counter what units?

For example, what should i have done when i saw him going with sorcs, priests, footmens, some rifles and a couple of mortars?

I understand now that a beginning of a massghoul to get ahead (witch i succeded with) and then get crypt fiends wasnt the best thing to do.

Anyway, i think you have got an idea of what i need more knowledge about.

I will appriciate all kind of hints and ideas you could have in your mind.

/Simon

[Sorry about my bad english, if there is something you think i should correct, just tell me and i might learn something usefull ;-) thx in advance]|||FS/TC chainwave with grunts & raiders would probably take care of most of that stuff. I'd throw in either some shamans to purge out WEs/etc, or a witch doc with stasis trap. Then again I could be wrong because orc is my worst race, although this usually works for me.|||www.worldoflan.mine.nu/scratch2.w3g

We played 1.18 because he didnt have battlenet version.

If you can watch it or open in Wc3chart or something,

you might be able to give me some more advice ?

I would be really gratefull.

Im not to good with all short words like , "we" and stuff..|||Quote:








FS/TC chainwave with grunts & raiders would probably take care of most of that stuff. I'd throw in either some shamans to purge out WEs/etc, or a witch doc with stasis trap. Then again I could be wrong because orc is my worst race, although this usually works for me.




Just to be sure, FS Faar Seer ? TC , Tauren Cheiftan ? WEs , Water Elementals?|||Yes, Fs = Far Seer, TC = Tauren Chieftan, WE = Water Elemental. There should be some guide round here somewhere with the abbreviations.

I blow at w3 and need massive help!

ok, so i maybe started playing w3 about a week ago. I used to play WOW, but as always got old. So when i started playing, i wanted to be good when i started playing online, so i started playing offline first, in custom games. I tried out all the races. but each time, i can't beat the first map (Booty bay). What the **** am i doing wrong. I need stratagies or something, becuase i am blowing. I usually Play Night Elf.

i need all the help i can get!

thanks.|||A combination of Bears and dryads works against almost everything. DH is an excellent first hero.|||will that work out of single player also?|||Quote:








will that work out of single player also?




Single player? depends if roc or tft... but night elves single-player strats are easy. Mass huntresses and archers and 6-10 glaive throwers. Your army attacks the enemy, in that moment glaives attack main building, goldmine if enemy is undead, barracks/crypt and altar... gg from that moment. And tower your base also.

Don't try my strategy in multiplayer.|||alright, thanks a lot.|||also, what are good hero(s)|||first of all: dont play booty bay :p

play the maps of the solo ladder for RoC and FT

for example gnoll wood, lost temple, ... train yourself on the ladder maps instead of others.

to beat the pc -> creep fast and lvl up your hero

or rush him since they build slow

about the hero for night elf -> go DH first and then POTM

if you get a little more experienced and can hadle two heros easily, then go DH + KotG

gl mate|||DH/Naga with Dryad/Bears basically > all.

Do the same with the heroes but mass DoTT if vs orc, and get cyclone with them.

If NE vs NE usually just go Potm or DH with hunts/glaives... I go Alchemist and mass huntresses, though. ;o|||Quote:








also, what are good hero(s)




The night elf ones.



Exception being Priestess if you don't go hunts, archers, and glaives OR if you're not playing on a team. priestess is an OK second hero after DH though. better imo to get warden or kotg if you get DH first, which most new players do. if kotg first i recommend DH or priestess.|||Not so much help as clarifying some earlier abbreviations.

DH = Demon Hunter

POTM = Priestess of the Moon

KotG = Keeper of the Grove

Hunts = Huntresses

towers = ancient protectors

If you have The Frozen Throne i recommend learning to play on these maps:

Wetlands

Lost Temple (Reign of Chaos version)

Turtle Rock

Echo Isles

Moonglade

Scorched Basin

Phantom Grove

Gnoll Wood

If you are playing Reign of Chaos play on these maps:

Plunder Isle

Lost Temple

Scorched Basin

Legends

Tranquil Paths

Moonglade

Gnollwood

These are all the most common maps for both Reign of Chaos (RoC) and The Frozen Throne (TFT)

Ouchies|||*sigh* what ever happened to plunder? was a great map imo... :(|||BAck in Roc I was a Dark Forestaddict/whore

〓〓〓[RPG] X Hero DevilMayCry 9.286 〓〓〓

You blow snyp0r? Noes!|||Quote:








-edit some think at the people










omfg what a worthless adevrtiser|||gg girl1234 blows.

You won't believe it - IMPRESSIVE

OMFG I found a new air killing machine... ALCHEMIST HITS AIR WITHOUT ORB!!! TESTED!!! With chemical rage... OMFG TEH IMBA AIR KILLZOR almost no one knows about it even with that:


Quote:








Attacks land and air units thanks to its special second attack type.




what do you think about it? I find it very interesting...|||Uhhhh nothing new for me...|||Too bad the the Goblin Alchemist is such a ****ty hero...|||Ya alchemist aint so bad,he is good at haras too with his Acid Bomb.

He can heal without buying a healing scrool and he can go koko nuts thanks to Chemical Rage!

I usaly pick him up as seacond hero!|||Quote:








Ya alchemist aint so bad,he is good at haras too with his Acid Bomb.

He can heal without buying a healing scrool and he can go koko nuts thanks to Chemical Rage!

I usaly pick him up as seacond hero!




And he has high int and loads of mana... |||I get Alchemist first in mirrors sometimes, mainly NE mirror. Transmute = <3. Especially with it's extremely low cooldown.|||Windwalk + chemical rage + ensnare + hex = thx.|||Well, I like him, though I don't find much use of him. Actually, I don't think I've ever tried him outside solo. Oh well.

NE vs Ud (mass fiends)

Hi all,

This is a question concerning RoC

How do you beat undead with mass fiends + lich + dk as night elf?

I went archers first, then tech for drayds and did some hit and runs with a few archer and mass drayds. It seemed impossible to go for bear (too long tech), so what should i have done?

Thnx,

T|||I havent played NE long time and ROC either.I dunno but lots Claive throwers are best i think.They cheap and easy to get.The attacks are good too.|||Glaives suck against anything, don't bother. And dryads are countered by fiends, so don't bother with them either.|||Yeah, dryads are suicide against fiends. What about a combo of mass archers, hunts, and possibly a few Dots?|||ballistas are tier 2... well... mass fiends + dk + lich is easily counterable by mass master dotts. If enemy goes ghoul + dl ( later garg + lich + dk) best counter is Alt-Q-Q.|||Quote:








ballistas are tier 2... well... mass fiends + dk + lich is easily counterable by mass master dotts.




HI DESTROS.|||Hi Roc..........|||Oh, ok. Sry I forgot taht.|||Oh... ithomas... don't go bears in RoC, they suck and they are pwned by fiends badly. Good strategy vs fiends is archers + kotg (entangle) or archers + potm it can give you advantage until enemy gets lich, in that moment press Alt-Q-Q.|||Quote:








Oh, ok. Sry I forgot taht.




lol owned...

EDIT: Oh and btw, you should have no problem teching to bears...|||lolololol stenar hax joo! ^^|||SteniS - in RoC bears get +50% from piercing (fiends)|||Counter: Buy TFT.

Seriously, it's like thirty cents by now.|||i just love the classic RoC (but i have TFT in fact, i just never play it - it came together in one battlepack)

thnx for feedback all - i'll go for mass archer and keep the ALT QQ in mind :p

in general UD seem to be my worst opponents as NE|||counter: play orc noogs. |||Quote:








i just love the classic RoC (but i have TFT in fact, i just never play it - it came together in one battlepack)

thnx for feedback all - i'll go for mass archer and keep the ALT QQ in mind :p

in general UD seem to be my worst opponents as NE




Well... it should be your worst matchup. What level are you? Low-level guys go mass fiends and this is easy to counter. If you meet >20 then its 100% ghoul-garg|||i dont play much ladder games (only lvl 9 so far), more customs.

the undead opponents were of both -20 and +20 level - they truely are my hardest match up.

but i will focus more on what i said above and try mass arch + dotts - i've seen some nice replays of NE owning UD armies thnx to dott (cyclone)|||Wand of Negation is a must if enemy gets Anti-Magic Shell...|||i've seen a good replay of NE vs UD (NE was draakki)

he went mass arch first for creep / then tech to T2 and get dual AOWind for dotts - archer & dotts for a while with DH and KotG - tech3 for cyclone master training

after a while and some hit and runs, he massed drayds and dotts with cyclone - and won vs the UD with mass fiends DL DK

i know this is kinda exceptional to get dual aowinf and dual AOLore - but it was on legends and game took 34min.



Think in future i'll go for mass arch and dotts (cyclone included) + DH

thnx for feedback jacek|||Quote:








i've seen a good replay of NE vs UD (NE was draakki)

he went mass arch first for creep / then tech to T2 and get dual AOWind for dotts - archer & dotts for a while with DH and KotG - tech3 for cyclone master training

after a while and some hit and runs, he massed drayds and dotts with cyclone - and won vs the UD with mass fiends DL DK

i know this is kinda exceptional to get dual aowinf and dual AOLore - but it was on legends and game took 34min.



Think in future i'll go for mass arch and dotts (cyclone included) + DH

thnx for feedback jacek




1) This is how you should play

2) This is draakki he was #2 solo ranked

3) mass fiends + dl = suxXx lich pwnz|||question: why is the lich so important with mass fiends?|||Well... think - archers 260 hp, dott approx. 350 hp. Nova takes 150 hp on lvl 5, normally you should meet ud with lich lvl 3 so 100 hp. 2 novas and archers are one-shot-kill. And they are slowed badly so can't run.|||ok, this is RoC

Is there any possible way for NE to win from UD? :p

mass gnouls owns my arch and huntz (even if i add in drayds)

mass fiends pwnz the **** out of me

gnoul then gargs win easily from my arch/hyppos

i've checked a lot of replays and i think i should go play undead as well :p

mass fiends gg

mass gnouls gg

gnoul/garg gg

they are so ****in imba (in roc, dunno in ft)

is this wrong thinking, or are they really that good?|||Yes they are imba... only problems you can have is mirror and good orc players...|||What's a gnoul...?|||ghoul + gnoll the genetical mutation, you know...

he meant ghoul|||Quote:








ok, this is RoC

Is there any possible way for NE to win from UD? :p

mass gnouls owns my arch and huntz (even if i add in drayds)

mass fiends pwnz the **** out of me

gnoul then gargs win easily from my arch/hyppos

i've checked a lot of replays and i think i should go play undead as well :p

mass fiends gg

mass gnouls gg

gnoul/garg gg

they are so ****in imba (in roc, dunno in ft)

is this wrong thinking, or are they really that good?




30 food worth of hunts, archers and dryad supported by potm and or dh should beat 30 food worth of fiends-ghouls and dk.|||drayds vs fiends?

wasnt that useless?|||I'm not sure about RoC, but in TFT, yes.|||well...socal... fight is equal as long as ud doesn't get 3/2 coil/nova

Countering mass destroyers with orc

Ok, as I quickly discovered through FFL's advice, mass destroyers is a pain in the ass to deal with when you're playing as orc. Note that I'm the UD player. Typically, the most used counter is to use bats against the demos, but that has been shown to not be as effective. So, that leaves three other options.

1. Mass wyverns (no good)

2. Mass Zerkers (no one uses zerkers, so this is rarely seen)

3. Use raiders in conjunction with something else.

I'm mostly concerned with Zerkers. How would they compare to mass destroyers? They're easy to mass, their damage isn't bad for their cost. They're just relatively easy to kill. Raiders & co. would be a little difficult to pull off, I would think.|||Zerkers get owned by AoE - Lich, CL, and Dreadlord come to mind.

Either way, the goal is not to counter destroyers, it is to prevent them from existing. Orcs get Wyverns at tier 2, and then they'll start massing them. He'll harass your workers and FF your hero, and they'll outnumber your fiends, etc. etc.|||true thing BW - dont counter them but try to avoid him from massing destros... anyway, i cant think of a proper counter; i hate destros|||In one of my earlier games coming back i actually got zerker trolls to counter destroyers. I still lost but it was due to him having 2 expo's and me not being able to hold one. I also had a level 3 Endurance Aura to go with them. It wasnt the destroyers that beat me, it was the whole not being able to have an expo.

Ouchies|||The thing with orc is you have to anticipate it. Watch grubby, even before he's scouted the ud, he starts massing bats. If you can get into a fight and try to win before he gets MASS destroyers then bats alone will do. However, if he does, you have to have a mix of wyverns/bats/raiders. get an expo and 2nd beastary at the same time, somewhere in t2.

With orc its best not to let him get to mass destros b/c, yes, its really hard to beat with orc. Better you try to take him head on (no in t1, you'll get fuked by ghoul surround or fiends/coil) but in early t2, when TC and first raider pops out. Early t2, orc has a huge advantage over ud. ;o|||Zerkers suck. They dont do much dmg, pwnt by AoE (Lich ).

As UD I dont mind someone taking raiders at t2. ghoul > raiders. But y, Orc has an huge advantage at t2. And y, anticipate, I remember Rotterdam taking 4 beastiaries, before the ud-opponent reached t3. The UD-beaters come from the beastiaries anyway. Take expo at t2, DK + ghouls cant prevent the expo.|||orc can easily expand at tier2, and with a superior income you should easily be able to outmass the dests with wyverns.|||Zerkers do excellent damage while zerking, what are you talking about?|||aye, ensnare + zerkers focus fire should also work|||Quote:








ghoul > raiders




Doesn't matter. I think most orc players go FS/TC against ud to take care of the ghoul problem.|||Bassically what your gunna want to do in orc vs undead is creep to lvl 2 far seer, push his acolytes with a few grunts and your wolfs/chain lightning, then speed scroll out, take your tc and your grunts and go expand, drop 2 beastiaries and mass the **** out of wyverns.

You wont be able to counter dests without the expo, but since most uds fast tech to teir 3 they will have a hard time taking it down. eventually youll want to tech to teir 3 for the tower upgrade and an SH with heal, since lvl 2 heal bassically counters nova and helps vs hero focus.

edit: blademaster works better on big maps like LT or GW, i think. but its preference. with blade you want to do bassically the same thing, adding hex for hero focus.

second edit: zerkers get assraped by impale/nova/orb splash. a good undead will just hit/run them and keep their numbers thin. Impale really hurts when you can hit a dozen of them at a time, and that stun is long enough for ud heros to fire off spells and back off again.|||Whille Wilikeh's points makes a ton of sence, especially with high-end replays in mind. I still firmly beleave Zerkers to be a viable counter to destros, ateast at a low-mid level of play (witch is where most of us are at!) ... getting zerkers is very different from not getting them though, and you have to adapt you early - mid game to be able to keep the zerkers safe enought in the lategame aka getting lv2 stomp asap, and other methods of hampering hero nuke/hitnruning or melee swarming; hex and stomp can be plenty to prevent hitnruns. (i actually get PL for howl alot too, tho that doenst make sence vs destros, but lv2+ cleave +orb&dmg items can be thx)

(about the heroes & earlygame, i have had to let go of TC first vs all races cept UD; i can still preform a decent harass with 3-4 grunts, pillage on a zig or shop, stomp and mb kill some repairing acos / ghouls and speed-scroll out without losses.)

Zerkers, (and hh's!) are fragile in the field while creeping though. so one as to be a bit carefull. sentrywards helps. (and for me, WD's usually proove usefull lategame too; not all wards get consumed and healwards helps vs the area dmg.. sentrywards can prevent shades in defensive positions to help bring up statis-trap + army guarded expo)

bottom line; Relying on HH's /zerkers for Anti air in a solo game required a playstyle very different from the mainstream to be remotely safe & effective. kind of similar to caster usage for undeads actually, and maybe non-AM-first for humans...

Peace.

Night Elf Mass Hunts Quick attack?

Hey guys, I used to play TFT a lot, and then I quit. I was pretty good, and I had an awesome build order/strat. I would somehow perfectly set it up so that I had 2 AoWs, a HH, altar and sufficient moon wells. Somehow with those 2 AoWs I would build enough Hunts so it would fill my selection amount with DH (12? 10?), and I would go attack enemy's base. It worked EVERY time, due to the fact that all of the builds started/ended at exactly the perfect time. (Hard to explain.) While I was attacking with those, reinforcements would come, 2 at a time, and I wouldn't lose.

So I guess waht I'm asking is, can you provide me with the best strat that is closest to this? Thanks.|||I recommend POTM instead of DH.|||my dual hunt bo, as far as i know its the fastest way to do it (with a hero)

4 starting wisps to gold

1 starting wisp to moonwell

queue up some wisps

first wisp completed builds alter

next 3 go to lumber

then one to gold

then rest to lumber (you want 14 wisps total, 2 go into building AoWs, so this puts you at 17 food with a hero, enough for a hunt before your second moonwell finishes)

at 160 wood, build both a AoW and a hunt hall

at 60 wood build a AoW

at 40 wood build a moonwell

at 40 wood build another moonwell

this maximizes your potential resource gathering. you never have a AoW waiting for a hunt hall, and you never have a moonwell without needing the food.

this was also my default build for years (certain maps had different builds). i always used KotG first and had a great deal of success with it.|||Quote:








my dual hunt bo, as far as i know its the fastest way to do it (with a hero)

4 starting wisps to gold

1 starting wisp to moonwell

queue up some wisps

first wisp completed builds alter

next 3 go to lumber

then one to gold

then rest to lumber (you want 14 wisps total, 2 go into building AoWs, so this puts you at 17 food with a hero, enough for a hunt before your second moonwell finishes)

at 160 wood, build both a AoW and a hunt hall

at 60 wood build a AoW

at 40 wood build a moonwell

at 40 wood build another moonwell

this maximizes your potential resource gathering. you never have a AoW waiting for a hunt hall, and you never have a moonwell without needing the food.

this was also my default build for years (certain maps had different builds). i always used KotG first and had a great deal of success with it.






question @ rexxxar

Sometimes I go ahead and build the AOW before the hall with the logic that although the AOW will not be providing units yet, it will provide some base defense, and with proper entangle micro, you can get some good hits on an enemy harassing hero. your thoughts?

Items

Post your cool ideas for items in WCIII TFT. It would be good if you included origin (drop/shop/merc) along with function.

Going to restate mine from earlier: a ward with endurance aura and unholy aura, both only level 1 to help keep from overpowering the item. It would need to drop to keep from being absolutely imba- maybe an 8-minute ward to drop from high-level creeps and a 3-minute ward to drop from medium-level creeps. Could be applied to resource gathering, base sieging, base defense, and potentially to hit-and-run attacks with proper handling. Useless to NE as far as resource gathering is concerned, but could help greatly in base defense in conjunction w/ moon wells (run heroes to wells faster), as well as with hunt hit and runs. Naturally a somewhat rare drop.

Units that complement fiends in RoC

so, anyways, im new here so hi to all.

i was lately trying out the basic fiend strat in RoC(Build order:Graveyard, crypt, zig, AoD etc) and found myself confused on what to do after i get my second hero, and about 20< fiends.

Any suggestions?

Thnx.|||by the time you have 2 heros (which should be DK and Lich) and 20 or more fiends, you should be able to kill down the other one quite easily.

do upgrades in the graveyard when resources permit

a mass fiend startegy is hard to counter in RoC and even harder with 3 heroes... its imo one of the imba things in RoC and somewhat the mainreason i hate UD-noobs ;-)|||Order your ally to make shaman/tauren in 2v2 :D

I suggest after getting 8 fiends and web and lich (2 heroes), make temple of teh damned and mass fiends/necro. Eventually if you don't know what to do,expo.|||I think that a DK to coil and a DL to sleep will kill the other side, that's because I constantly hate that. So far I've never won in RoC (the only thing I play) against MASSED crypt fiends as night elf, but I've found that bears and dryads/dot might work. The main way to counter it I think is to strike early/harass.|||Quote:








I think that a DK to coil and a DL to sleep will kill the other side, that's because I constantly hate that. So far I've never won in RoC (the only thing I play) against MASSED crypt fiends as night elf, but I've found that bears and dryads/dot might work. The main way to counter it I think is to strike early/harass.




fiends > dyrads and bears. dott's get pwnt too, tnx to piercing attack.|||reign of chaos - nelf vs undead:

KOTG + Archers >> Fiends

Master Talons > Fiends

Alt-Q-Q >> Ghoul-Garg|||Back on topic, to complement fiends, I recommend using some banshees and necros (skeletons) and might want to be using banshees (nobody does) to get yourself some casters (the UD ones don't have anti-caster). Ive found that when playing random bahshees can certainly give you an edge.|||UD doesn't have anti-caster? What about teh antimagic shell?|||Well, banshees work...|||Quote:








reign of chaos - nelf vs undead:

KOTG + Archers >> Fiends




is it implied that i don't have a hero in this one?

|||KOTG is Keeper of the Grove.



complement Fiends with Lurkers.|||Quote:








KOTG is Keeper of the Grove.



complement Fiends with Lurkers.




i know what kotg is....

what the hell's lurkers?|||he was joking, as both lurker and fiend have Burrow ability /in tft/|||which idiot trains > 20 fiends?

5/6 fiends is sufficient, just make casters and some melee for support.|||Quote:








which idiot trains > 20 fiends?




RoC tards?|||Quote:








is it implied that i don't have a hero in this one?








Oh. Now I get what you meant.|||Quote:








Oh. Now I get what you meant.




so what would be the solution?

i know that with ghouls early confrontation against KotG is dangerous. However when the second hero is out(Lich) i could abuse the sh|t out of him, dispelling the entangle and stuff. is this the same for the strat with fiends?|||melee? eventually ghouls, i prefer wyrms... aboms? wtf are aboms? entangle, focus with 6 archers, dead abom, focus on another, dead abom|||Quote:








so what would be the solution?

i know that with ghouls early confrontation against KotG is dangerous. However when the second hero is out(Lich) i could abuse the sh|t out of him, dispelling the entangle and stuff. is this the same for the strat with fiends?




wtf, id rather have the enemy entangle and ff a lousy ghoul than my costly fiend!

and how do you dispel with lich? |||I think that was in reference to being in tier 2 or something?