This might seem like a really stupid question...but im really not all that good in ladder games, but here goes:
I get owned every time an enemy Undead player goes DK with rod/Fiends rush.
I play usually Orc and NE, so strats for them please.
With orc, I usually have around 7 grunts and hero (SH) when the attack comes and with NE some 10 archers and hero (PotM/DH). I don't get what i'm doing wrong.|||you may want to consider a better base design. consult the several resources on this forum, try using the 'search' utility.|||here is some feedback from my side - but i'm not that good either
i hate undead and especially mass fiends
as orc i go for FS + (later on TC) and HH/raider (works, but not always)
something that works very well - but its hard to pull off and you need to know in advance that the ud is going for fiends -> TC + some HH for creeping and meanwhile tech to tauren and shaman
TC and tauren own mass fiends (seen several replays of that)
as nelf i suggest DH + (later on PotM) and mass huntz (upgraded as much as possible) and later on some master dotts to cyclone
hope its something you can use - its more a general feedback, not really a rush-counter i think
regards|||Quote:
This might seem like a really stupid question...but im really not all that good in ladder games, but here goes:
I get owned every time an enemy Undead player goes DK with rod/Fiends rush.
I play usually Orc and NE, so strats for them please.
With orc, I usually have around 7 grunts and hero (SH) when the attack comes and with NE some 10 archers and hero (PotM/DH). I don't get what i'm doing wrong.
NE: Go Kotg (entangle ftw) or speedy/mass damage DH with hunts
ORC: Go Fars / TC with grunt raider (ensnare the weak fiends) and some wyvs.|||With orc, stay kinda defensive at tier1, just creep etc. At tier2 when your TC and raiders(with ensnare) pops out, you should have no problem dealing with fiends. Make sure to get a dust of appearance to detected burrowed fiends.|||You have way too much grunts, if you ask me. Make sure you tech sooner to get a 'fast' second hero and tier 2 units like raiders or casters, and don't get more than about 4-5 grunts at once.|||Quote:
and you need to know in advance that the ud is going for fiends
quoted for truth
i remember a time that i was UD vs Orc.. he got far seer and lots of HH without scouting, assuming i was going fiends. I found about 7 HH and the far seer when I came with my mass ghoul/lich rush. it was gg.|||Scout is important!
i did the following a few days ago: i went for DK and 2 fiends and went to the NE's base and retreated immediately.
he obviously taught "another ud massing fiends" - he went DH + huntz and i nicely teched to gnoul/garg :p
As orc, i always try to get to T2 as fast as possible and then get one witchdoc for sentry ward which i try to put on a few tactical spots on the map and in his base (if possible)
after that i go shaman.|||Oh, those darned gnouls! >_>
I think it's a good idea to always (hero-)harass, even if you don't kill anything you will/might disrupt his creeping, force him to build a nerub/arcane tower, detonate wisps, use burrows or militia and draw the initiative a bit your way.|||yeah do a 2 grunt tech, and get raiders + 2nd hero fast, TC preferably. fiends are dead meat with grunt/raider/stomp. ;o|||yeah, a low hp DK early game is really annoying for an UD player|||Quote:
gnouls! >_>
Heh, funny. I have seen this same typo before on these forums.
Thanks for the tips, but actually the real problem is how do I get rid of the mass skeletons from the Rod on Tier 1/2. Dryads don't sound like a good idea vs. fiends.
With orc I guess i could have a spiritwalker or two...but then again they would get horribly blasted by possible UD nuke.|||With NE you have wisps, with Orc... You'll just have to deal with it, if you have your TC out you'll probably end up hitting some skellies with ChainWave.|||If your Orc, and you've got some 800hp sick-ass grunts, 2 slow 12-hitting skellies shouldt pose much of a problem... It gets annoying when there are mass skellies.
Blade master wrecks skeletons and fiends and you should be trying to harass them, catching them in the middle of a skelly harass can take them off guard. Remember you have wind walk if worst comes to worst. I'd also reccommend Headhunters since they're likely to go Destroyers Raiders help too. make two separate macro's for each unit type as they shouldn't be together early game. If anything your best bet is to knock them back with BM harass then immediately go after their closest exe so that they can't get one (this depends on the map obviously) and send raiders there the moment you bring them out and mass them there. You may also want to build docs early for sentry.
ReplyDeleteIn fact i reccommend getting at least 1 or two docs but DON'T UPGRADE THEM. Focus on getting raiders with ensnare and pilliage and as soon as you have an opening, proceed to rape their base with raiders. It's highly likely that if they're going destroyers that they will be struggling by now as it costs a lot of gold. Just get raiders over to their closest exe asap and if there are any other nearby exe's on the map, try to trap the UD player there and proceed to attack their main with raiders. The UD player will be too overwhelmed to keep fighting and will tp leaving them open. If they're good enough to destroy your raiders then bring in your docs because it's likely they will be holding off destroyers and you want to save as many raiders as possible so back them away and bring in your headhunters and docs.
Plant a sentry and try upgrading the docs. If you see a slaughterhouse, it should always be your first target to ensure there are no destroyers, then any statues if they have any, then ziggurats. If they do have an exe by now, don't worry, you have the upper hand. Just make sure their main is damaged substantially with no slaughterhouses and at least two of their ziggurats taken down and you should win. Just fast tech the doc upgrades and get berserker upgrade when you can.
If you want you can get bats now to mess with your opponent who probably won't see them comming. Great way to finish their exe and any possible ground/air units.
There are other strats out there that are more effective but this is probably the safest. Blademaster ensures your opponent is fearful and will keep them passive for the most part, usually forcing them to creep making this strat easier. On the other hand you can go Farseer for spirit wolves, but that's only if they're dumb enough to use ghouls on you. Problem with FS is he is easily countered so if you're gonna go FS be sure to have towers but FS can be useful. Don't ever go shadow hunter first and avoid TC, he is just way too slow and clumsy. You may also want to split your heroes apart if you're going 2 heroes. Shadow hunter can go with raiders for heals/serpant ward and tp. BM can stick with headhunters and tank.
Undead are pretty much all about getting down n dirty with raiders. Oh and bringing in a Kodo helps too.