[:1]I'm haveing some serious trouble with undead players in 1v1. I can't seem to counter their spread of units and ive tried everything from the stupid stuff that more then likey would not work to thought out stratagies. To break it down more the necs don't give me trouble its when the combine the necs with aboms/destroyers/fiends and banshees i don't know why but i can't seem to beat it without some serious time on my hands (mostly from newbs that watched a few replays and seen a good strat). Any advice would help.|||Mass rofflecopters?
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AM, BM, Pally, knights, rifles, mortars, priests, maybe some sorcs? And speed skates for all the heroes. Oh, and gryphons, they're important.|||Don't use the AM.
If someone tells you to use the AM vs the Undead, don't listen to them.
AM is used in almost every game and yes, he is good, but undead tri hero nuke is also used in almsot every game and then the AM sucks. Don't use the AM.
Use the strength heroes - Paladin, MK.
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Oh, and gryphons, they're important.
won't the fiend web + abominations totally crush them?|||Watch my replays in the "Gamer's Replays" forum|||If you know your enemy will be UD (ie not random), then choose Pally for sure. Go with HL and DS. At higher lvl, get AM for brilliance and buy some mana item and cast HL to kill the necs really fast.|||what kind of moron would use necros agaisnt human?|||Quote:
what kind of moron would use necros agaisnt human?
I would!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!|||everyone goes necrowagon vs hu. its basic strategy, its what they least expect!|||MK/pally/BMage. order is at your discretion, but i go by this order. breaker/priests/gyros if vs fiend/destros + necs. change breakers to knights if with aboms. a few breakers vs the DK would help if you can micro them.
otherwise... uh, a little prayer would help...|||Personally, I would pick Paladin before the MK. Then you could save your units if you are attacked early by focus-firing fiends, and still nuke if you need to.|||things would really be easier in HU vs UD if breakers werent so easily countered by ghouls. when i can, i try my best to drain the DK's mana. that takes care of that damn nuke. it's actually why i go MK first, for longer stun time so breakers can come in and do their work. 1s makes a lot of difference.|||Pally is overall better for creeping I think for saving units and less mana cost. MK is better for preventing DK harrasses/fiend rushes.|||you dont need light if you have micro|||twisted orc is right cuz with good micro expetially at green creeps u bring a few units and u can creep it with like 50-100 dam on each unit|||Whahahah that's so funny|||Wahaha NECRO + WAGGON?
It's important to get your fast expo up after you get level two. If you want to piss the UD off then learn how to abuse Paly, that's one strat that works well with divine shield and level 3 holy light. As for units you want to tower up first and then wait for your bank roll to kick in and then decide if he's two slaughter house destro pushing you then you need COPTERS asap. If he's sticking more to fiends and going for wyrm tech then you want to go upgraded knights and then a few d hawks just for the wyrm. If he's doing this abom nec banshee thing then the best thing you can do is just 3 Aviary and gryphons of course you need the copters for his destroes don't forget
ReplyDeleteIf you see spiders, get tanks, spiders are very weak. If you're feeling daring then harass with MK and a few footies, it all depends on what you see on the map. If they have a compact base then creep, if they have a ziggurat placed stupidly in the middle of nowhere, harass. Ziggurats are easy to kill.
ReplyDeleteIf they go ghouls/gargs, you'll have a but of trouble. Don't even think about footmen the moment you see two crypts, get rifles and MK (Very important) with thunder clap. Once the enemy gets to your base (which they probably will) hit their ghouls with a clap then either focus hero/gargs (depending if they have gargs yet). This will either force them to tp or they will die. Be careful if you're up against a Dreadlord as they can sleep your MK. If you see DK, get Boots of speed ASAP to keep up with him ad DK is very vulnerable and is literally the spine of the undead army.
Once you get tier 2, lumber upgrade as usual and get an arcane sanctuary. Get magic sentry and if you haven't already done so, exe (you should have one by now) Make sure you have towers and get Paladin, depending on what you want to do you you will either pick holy light or shield. Shield is good if you want a passive tank for ghouls to distract but light is good for nuking/saving units. Since you have MK you already have a nuke so you either go double nuke (if you're confident) or shield for a safe Paladin. Then get sorc asap and try and get a workshop up. Get a mechanical critter and scout if you see necro wagons, immediately get priest adept upgrade and follow up with a priest (heck cancel sorceress altogether) otherwise stick with sorceress and as soon as your workshop is built get flare and a single mortar, place it near a tavern or at your main base and start flaring red creeps. Usually undead players are either harrassing or creeping so if the red creeps are still there, rush them and send a critter there (if you can get sentry wards, place them there at night), if you see the enemy, go there immediately, wait for them to be weakened and if you see their hero on yellow health, stormbolt him and focus him down. If you see weak units, go crazy with holy light nukes to scare them off. Don't forget to try and get the item, use storm bolt on the highest level creep there if you can to steal xp and get the item.
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DeleteThis will usually convince the enemy to leave because you are stronger now. If this happends, check for exe's and if there's still nothing, mass tanks. If there is an exe, attack it. Getting pit lord can be handy depending on the enemies heroes as he's immune to coil. You'll be using holy light as nuke anyways, give him rain of fire and start aoeing the towers. if there aren't any towers (which there should be) take out the aco's first. he enemy will usually tp around this point and you wanna get out of there so that you can buy some extra time for tanks. Tanks are an undead player's worst nightmare and will dominate later on vs ghouls n gargs, just don't bring them in early because they're a waste and will be raped by ghouls. If you see them massing gargs for some reason then give them barrage, otherwise you won't really need it as rifles will suffice. Now if the UD chooses to go destroyers. You need to mass tanks ASAP and get barrage. It will also confirm that they have an exe, taking that out = no destroyers. Tanks will make quick work of exe's.
DeleteSo all in all Tanks > all undead units besides frost wyrms and aboms and even still, barrage makes for a good counter to frosties and will convince them to avoid them. Casters help tremendously with tanks, particularly sorceresses as they can slow any possible wyrms that come their way. Aboms can be troublesome but still easy to deal with sorceresses.
If you wanna get really crafty, get an alchemist as main hero and get acid bomb, those pesky ghouls will shiver in fear, chemical rage assures you can keep up with a DK and Transmute lets you get some free gold from potentially dangerous frosties. You see a lot of UD players tend to get 1 frosty because they're costly so transmute is incredibly useful and can be a game changer. It does require fast creeping and if you do get attacked, acid bomb is your friend as they will likely have ghouls early on. By the time the Wyrms/aboms are out, transmute will turn the battle in your favor. You might want to spend the gold you got on an orb of fire as it can be handy against gargoyles. If you can get rid of the red creeps, UD will be severely weak and once you get level 6 you can get a secondary hero like a Paladin just to put salt in the wound. Just be sure to keep him back. You can also use shield if you want to attract enemy fire (if he likes hero focusing) but i'd ultimately reccommend holy light as it's a somewhat weak yet useful nuke since you'll likely not have a MK. Use it on units though ideally for fast ko.
Usually the hard part about UD is microing all this and not screwing up but if the UD player is bad, you will win very quickly, all it takes is a quick rush to stop them. So you have a lot of openings, you just have to worry about their awkward unit set ups. The main issue with undead is that they tend to mass gargs against human a lot as ghouls can be easy for a human player to take out. Heck if anything, Humans are the ultimate bane for ghouls as their tier 1 melee costs the same amount of food and only 15 gold more with +2 armour. So if you start with footies, they will often begin to mass gargs so keep your rifles hidden in your base until you're ready and run back as soon as you see/kill one ghoul. So all in all, Undead fear Human and you shouldn't be afraid of them, just be careful and micro well.
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DeleteJust to add. Once you get tier 3 i would reccommend getting a priest for inner fire so your units can survive longer. Inner fire can turn the tide very quickly against undead. That extra health boost can make a massive differrence, especially against melee units like ghouls. Heck it's probably possible to bring in footies with inner fire to totally terrorize aboms but i don't reccommend it as rifles are better and so are knights so really there is no reason to go footies that late but i'm just using them as an example as to how useful inner fire is. It will also help against banshees if they decide to use them as you can dispel their curse. You can also dispel diesese cloud so i honestly don't see a reason not to have a priest around by tier 3. (Seriously, banshees are really good against human, especially if you're on a map with an ogre magi or something, go grab it and ruin the humans day. Don't forget you can also posess a peasent to build a human exe so you can get arcane towers)
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