Destroyers are a possible counter, but they'd take forever to get compared to how easy it would be to just get Bloodlust. Is that the only possible counter? Bah.
What about Spirit Walkers? I had a Shade to follow them around in ethereal form before but between my Ghouls, Crypt Fiends, Abominations, Heroes and Obelisks none of them could do a thing to hurt them in any significant form.
Same with Necromancers in mirror matches; millions of skeletons, everywhere. My guess is to use Destroyers as a counter, which I'll try out...
Are Abominations worth getting? I know they're supposed to be great meat shields but I've never actually seen them do well when I've used them in games. They pretty much just get surrounded and die right away.
What strategies, in general, do you think are good to use with Undead? I saw another thread detailing them somewhat, but I wanted to make a thread just to focus on these questions.|||Destroyers are the way. Skip abominations.|||What, like one or two in the back casting Devour or a whole fleet of them?|||Depends on how many casters they've got.|||shuup. few of them are kewl, otherwise bats will **** you all night long.
btw, camon, against orcs use that brilliant strat of ipod. (dk/fiends/lich-frost armoar 1st etc)|||iPod?
Well, I generally do that anyway, but then what happens when they get Taurens? Taurens pretty much pound every Undead ground unit into the ground. And when you throw Bloodlust, Spirit Walkers and the Shadow Hunter's chain healing into the mix you might as well kiss your army goodbye.
Here's a replay of one of my games if anyone is interested in seeing how I play; maybe somebody can point out what I did wrong, etc. Me and my friend haven't played for years though, so we're not necessarily using mainstream�that is, good�strategies.
Wait. I can't upload it. Apparently it's too big a file.|||against cowmen and cowbeasts use shees, my friend. try to find the infernal peon thread in this same forum.|||the key to beating tauren with fiends with frost armor?micro+macro coil ur units nova tauren that r clumped together or the casters its efficient if you get used to it anmd yeah destros r good vs most things except dryads =\ imbaness aboms?useless i hardly ever use them the only time i use is when i go dreadlord with the ghoul rush otherwise they r just there to take dmg oh and throw in a cryptlord maybe impale might help vs tauren or casters|||Lol...How can you be having trouble with taurens...?
If you're letting him get taurens AND bloodlust then you're not playing the right way against orc. And even if he did get taurens you should have no problem with them:
If he's going for tauren and lust, then he prolly wont have a beastary. Grunt + raider kinda pwns UD (unless the UD goes frost armor), but without raiders, orc has no chance. Even with a TC...But you said they go SH anyway...
Just rush him at t2. You should tech quite fast (most UD's tech really fast) and still have enough fiends to rush at t2. Once your lich pops out, its pretty much gg for him. Go frost armor on your lich as twisted said: frost armor pwns orc beyond reality.
But if he SOMEHOW manages to get them...Sheesh you shouldn't have any problem. Banshees, destroyers, frosties > tauren. You're saying bats. But he prolly wont have a beastary b/c hes saving lumber for totem and lodge + lust.
I find it really odd that anybody would get casters vs. UD, even if they dont get very many, simply b/c its a known fact that UD pwns basically all casters with destroyers. You can get them quite fast, before he gets tauren, b/c they come from the slaughter house...and put on orb of annihilation and then its really gg.
And yes, find the Infernal Peon thread 0o|||I uploaded a replay so you can see what I mean.
http://antiochforever.com/files/memb...STIUEtrrie.w3g
I'm better than my friends, but then again, we all suck. So when you're watching keep in mind our play consists mainly between our group, much like a vacuum devoid of any knowledge of how everybody else plays in the world of probably better gamers.
This is the best I've done; usually the match is even until Bloodlust comes into the picture, then it falls apart. In this game, it was decidedly in my favor until Bloodlust came into the picture, in which case it still fell apart.|||Its fine that you suck. Every1 did one day. However, don't stay in that 'vacuum' your referring to. Watch replays from pros: www.wcreplays.com|||I use (VS orcs) more an combination of banshees, aboms and necro's. (or possibly smth with destro's) really mst banshee pwns a lott of strat (it is fun against ne with bears, I use it a lott, it really pwns them :P).
But you just got to know what is good vs smth, did you have trouble with dryads, make meat wagons and your problems are over, do you think it is hard to go against humans with casters, use destroyers etc etc...
You can have an standard build (I usually have an mix of ghouls and fiends) and then just react to what the other person builds ... Learn what counters what and use that (for example, hunts with glaives will be pwnd by gargoyls)|||then Roared hippos > u (except in that maps with mountains where stone form to deth)
And shees against ne is lawl|||In response to the first post (tauren, bloodlust, necros, etc), destroyers. Destroyers, destroyers, destroyers. Lots of destroyers, and then a few more destroyers. They're undead's strongest unit anyway, they're made to counter casters and heavy meelee, and with x/2 or ideally x/3 upgrades, healing scrolls and coil you won't have any problems vs bats either.
Quote:
iPod?
That would be me. :o
The strat he's talking about can be found here (I'm RakkauS):
http://www.wcreplays.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66585
(there are some replays further down in the thread).|||Quote:
then Roared hippos > u (except in that maps with mountains where stone form to deth)
And shees against ne is lawl
I haven't encounterd that strat lately, but then either fiend with web (wich I usually get later in the game to be save) and maybe destro's? but dunno if that is an good counter VS hippo's ... (and well the shees get those pesky bears ...)|||Most ne will go archers anyway.
I use shees agaisnt ne most forfun, or when the game is already won, OR ,when i forget that my apm is 150 less than the necessary, I use mass ghouls/AMS.|||In regards to using Destroyers, won't Raiders or Crypt Fiends make quick work out of them?|||novapale aa and coil dessies|||"novapale aa"?
Thanks for advice, by the way. I'm gonna try it out soon. And as if on cue, my Orc playing friend told me he got wrecked in his last game against Undead—by Destroyers. Perfect timing.|||he means use frost nova and impale against their anti air.|||I tried it out against my friend. It worked great. The first game I utterly dominated him; his army ran from every battle, and unlike usual, I managed to pick off half of them as they retreated. The second time, it was a bit closer, and it seemed like I would lose in the beginning, since I got creepjacked, but I came back and won. The third time all of my Devourers died to a million Raiders, backed up by a Farseer and a Shadow Hunter.
I teched like a maniac in the first two games; the third game he was building a stronger ground force and was coming for me earlier, so I built Crypt Fiends and Ghouls a bit more. I'm not sure if I should make a straight rush for Devourers and ignore the rest or just get to them at a normal pace as I build other units. If I tech hard for them I leave myself open to a big attack early in the game, after all.|||Why u let him do that?|||Try to get some early game skirmishes/creepjacks going. Even if you tech really fast, you should have enough fiends (3-6ish about) between t1 and t2, to be able to creep and burrow rush/creepjack. Burrow rushes are great against orc. As I'm orc, I know how much they hurt. If you manage to take out at least 1 burrow you'll delay his unit production quite a bit.
If he attacks your base, FF grunts 1 by 1 with nerub tower + fiends.|||Go wolves first btw|||Is it wise to try building Ghouls to fight against Orc ground units? I use Fiends a lot, but they just keel over when fighting Grunts and other units. There's not enough melee to block them, but I think Undead ground units would die pretty fast anyway to Orc ones...
Destroyers die in like five seconds to Raiders.|||You have to learn how to hit and run with fiends and dance them around so that their grunts walk around hopelessly trying to hit it. Use coil when necessary and pull back when necessary. Rinse and repeat i guess.|||getting a mix of ghoul/fiend is possible and can really own orcs, but it's damn hard to master and you need perfect timing, so i seriously don't recommend it for beginners... :s
fiends beat grunts with micro until raiders and tc come out, and that's were frost armor comes in handy.
destros should not "die in like five seconds to raiders". if they do you're doing sth wrong. mb post a replay? i can't watch reps myself but perhaps twisted or snypar would be willing to.|||Quote:
Is it wise to try building Ghouls to fight against Orc ground units? I use Fiends a lot, but they just keel over when fighting Grunts and other units. There's not enough melee to block them, but I think Undead ground units would die pretty fast anyway to Orc ones...
Destroyers die in like five seconds to Raiders.
dont build mass ghouls vs orc grunts + chain lightning will destroy them unless u have good micro. As for the fiends coil with dk dance them and frost armor vs grunts and when they try to retreat try slowing down some of the army with a nova towards the back it usually helps get a unit or two picked off before its over.|||Upgrading your Zigs is also a good idea.|||I'd like to use this thread to ask for some advice too. My micro isn't good btw, I'm still learning and I can't do it with lots of units, but hopefully practice will do
Q1: I need to know what's a good counter against Humans when they go knights+casters+mortars. I know many of you will say Destroyers, but Knight obliterate fiends like if they were nothing, and by the time i realize all of them are hitting my hero and I have to start running away. It feels like I need a meat shield or something
Q2: What's a good base build to get fiends early? recently i've been building crypt+altar+aco+zig+shop with ghouls, but I'd like to stick with fiends early without having problems with the lumbre
Q3: Night Elves. They just seem unbeatable to me. DH harrass is a bore and they start getting panda+bears+dryads+Dots or something like that. I've tried the gargoyle strategy but that usually leaves me without enough ground units to protect my heroes. Any advice?
Q4: I've been reading on how to counter taurens, and most of what i've seen is shees+destroyers. But what about ground units? Fiends don't last against taurens anyway, and I can't just leave my heroes there taking damage. The grunt+raider strat has never been a problem to me
Anyway, those are my questions for now. I know many of my loses are due to the fact that the enemy has way better micro than I, but at least I could stand a chance if I knew how to counter certain strategies. Thsnks for the help in advance
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