Undead Cookie Cutter Guide

I found this really nice UD cookie cutter guide, for all of you Ud players on this forum that has really helped me to improve my game. Now, I have made some corrections and comments to it which will be in parenthesis followed by "FBA Comment").

This guide covers all of the matchups and many helpful tips.|||"The Undead Scourge is most probably the most powerful and used race. With their speed, hero nuke and healing, this makes them nearly unstoppable with no real weakness.

Tips

- In the Undead mirror, try to surround your goldmine with buildings so that your opponent cannnot rush in with his ghouls to destroy it

- When your lich gets nova-ed, nova the ghouls trying to surround you too to slow them down and avoid getting surrounded.

- Always give the orb of corruption to the lich since he is the only ranged hero out of the 4 undead heroes for focus fire (the armour reduction is really huge). If you intend to give the orb to a melee hero to fight air, give it to the crypt lord, since he has the highest dps. The Dreadlord also deals more damage per second than the Death Knight even when the Dreadlord is 2 levels below the Death Knight. That is the reason why pros always put their orbs with the Crypt Lord/Dread Lord.

- Sometimes, when you are a lot weaker than your opponent and you desperately want him to get lost to stall for some time to build up your army, you should always try to surround and kill the hero. This will force him to teleport away. If your base is under siege, select your Halls of the Dead/Black Citadel/Nerubian Tower to attack the enemy hero. This allows you to surround it more easily.

- There is no excuse in not buying a heal scroll before battle since it is available in the tier 3 tomb of relics.



Pros and Cons of Scouting with either an Acolyte or a Ghoul:

Most players use ghouls to scout out the opponent's position on the map. However, some do use acolytes to scout. Why? Ghouls are generally a better choice since they have an average movement speed as compared to acolytes. They can also return back to base to harvest lumber after that. Also, acolytes become useless after their job is done. However, acolytes are better scouts because they give lesser experience and are cheaper compared to ghouls. I would use acolytes only to scout out a Warden user, since a Warden will definitely be able to kill the scout if it hangs around for too long.|||In my opinion, the undead player is a lot stronger as long as the human player doesn't expand. However, I feel that Water Elementals are too strong against the weak ghouls so humans do have an advantage at the beginning until the statues and abominations arrive. One important thing to note is whether the human has any riflemen and casters at all. If you do not see riflemen for a long time, it means that the opponent is getting mass air so be prepared to counter with spiders.

Death Knight + Lich + Crypt Lord with Ghouls/Aboms + Destroyers + Statues

Basic build order: You would want an early altar so that you can get your Death Knight out the same time he gets his Archmage out. Since humans are able to creep very quickly without stopping with the aid of the water elementals, it is good to be able to hinder his progress early on.

1) Build an altar

2) Build a ziggurat

3) Build a crypt

4) Build a tomb of relics

5) Build a ziggurat

6) Buy Rod of Necromancy and run to the green creeping spot near the human's base

7) Tech when you have enough lumber

Harassment: The undead scourge is a very aggressive race and the Death Knight is one of the best harassing heroes with his speed. The point of harassment is to prevent your opponent from levelling up faster than you since level 2 water elementals are deadly and that undead heroes need to reach high levels to become strong and unstoppable. Usually, I would send my Death Knight to follow the Archmage and his footmen. At this point, he could either come forward to attack your Death Knight or to ignore you and continue creeping. Do not coil creeps unless you are quite sure that you can get the kill. The last thing you want to do is to assist him in killing the creeps. If he stops attacking the creep when it is left with slightly more than 100 hp, give it a whack with your Death Knight and finish it off. And lastly, please do not coil lousy creeps (like small turtles). If the human is militia-creeping, summon skeletons with your rod of necromancy and chase the peasants and finish them off with a death coil.

Creeping: Meanwhile, you should be creeping with your 5-7 ghouls. Do not attempt to handle powerful creeps without your Death Knight. If the human gets frustrated with your harassment and rushes to kill your ghouls, make sure that you destroy the item dropped by the fallen creeps by A-clicking on it. It is also useful to buy a staff of teleportation so that you can return to your ghouls to assist them in the creeping or if you are surrounded by footmen.

Tier 2: Tier 2 is relatively unimportant to the Scourge. Most players quickly tech on to tier 3 after building a Slaughterhouse and summoning a Lich. Hopefully, your Death Knight is already level 3 when your Lich is out. You may want to power-level the Lich to level 3 for level 2 nova so you can harass the human again with your Death Knight (do not attempt to harass a human with a Mountain King unless you have a Staff of Teleportation or if he has poor surrounding skills).

3 ways to handle the Alliance: They are ghouls, abominations and skeletons. I find that abominations are really tough to handle especially if you have level 3 death coil. Ghouls with frenzy generally destroy a human ground army faster than abominations since they can attack a lot quicker. However, they are still as fragile as ever, which means that each individual ghoul should hold a piece of lumber so that you can conveniently press E for return resources and ungroup that particular ghoul. And the last way is to mass rods of necromancy. This is generally risky because the human can get adept priests for dispel. However, it allows you to have a decent army without going into low upkeep. You buy a rod of necromancy for each of your 3 heroes and an orb of corruption for the Lich. Remember that your heroes must be stronger than the Archmage and the Mountain King or else your lack of troops will result in your defeat.

Tier 3: Its time for frenzy, abominations, destroyer form and a crypt lord. If you wanted to go for mass ghouls, you should have already built a second crypt. If you wanted to get mass abominations and destroyers, you should have built a second slaughterhouse. You may consider buying a scroll of healing with your Crypt lord from the Tomb of Relics, especially if you are using ghouls.

Fighting in major battles: With your 3 heroes and frenzied ghouls, you are more than ready to fight the human. Your aim is to destroy the riflemen and Mountain King without losing too many troops. It is best to make the Crypt Lord an attractive target for focus fire. Get a good position and cast impale and nova. Your ghouls should avoid attacking the Mountain King and the Water Elementals in front. Instead, run to the riflemen and casters and start attacking them. With good timing of impale + nova, they should be getting owned. Your destroyers should stay as far back as possible to avoid riflemen focus fire. Devour slow, since it is very deadly. If there is nothing else to devour, devour the water elementals. When it comes to militia, try to retreat if possible until the miltia time expires, then start fighting again. This will hurt his economy and prevent him from gaining any additional firepower.

(Lost Temple)

Defeating fast expansions: Lost Temple will forever be a human map, and it would usually mean that the undead would lose. However, with some good decision making and timing, the undead might just stand a chance. If you spawn next to your opponent's natural expansion, build a second crypt at 26/30 and put lots of pressure on him. Try your best to destroy the towers before they are completed. The human will definitely be using lots of militia so make sure that you totally overwhelm him with ghouls. If you manage to take the expansion down, the game is yours. Only tech if it seems that the expansion will surely go up. If you spawn anywhere else, make sure that you try to slow him down to a certain extent, and build up your own expansion. Going for mass frenzied ghouls in this case is not a very wise idea since knights and gryphons will destroy them. Abominations and destroyers are the better option. There are 2 ways to fight mass air: Mass gargolyes and mass fiends. Both ways have their advantages and disadvantages. Massing gargolyes would require you to train them from 3 crypts, since the human would be training dragonhawks from 3 gryphon avaries. This would mean that you need an expansion. You would definitely lose the battle if you do not outnumber the dragonhawks by at least 7-8 and you would need a high level frost nova to assist in the killing of the dragonhawks. They are also very vulnerable to siege engines (the human would build 2 workshops for mass siege engines with barrage). If that happens, get some meat wagons to kill them. On the other hand, fiends have an easy time taking mass air down. Fiends can beat both dragonhawks and gryphons 1v1 (gryphons with animal war training will barely defeat fiends). However, they are vulnerable to knights. If that happens, mix a few abominations/destroyers into your army.

(Gnoll Wood)

This is the map where you may want to go for the usual Crypt/Zig/Altar build so that you can use a ghoul to scout for the enemy earlier on. Harass and creep as usual, but this time the fountain would be very accessible to you, since all green creep camps are close to the fountain. Make sure that you are aware of your opponent's whereabouts throughout the beginning of the game (use your skeletons to follow the opponent while you recharge at the fountain). If the Archmage has less than 200 hp, chase him and give him 2-3 death coils. That would definitely slow down his creeping by a lot.

(Twisted Meadows)

Goblin Merchant items are great ^^. Try to creep it.|||Really tough for you. Orcs are usually the ones that are aggressive, especially if you are using spiders. This is the only matchup where spiders are decent, since it would greatly discourage the opponent from getting windriders.

Ghoul opening: Needs more micro, takes more damage from shockwave, able to stop expansions easily, good for performing surrounds

Fiend opening: Needs less micro, takes less damage from shockwave, slower in terms of creeping, good for fighting air

I do use both fiends and ghouls, and I find that fiends beat grunts quite easily during the early stages of the game while ghouls lose to grunts since they are fragile.

Ghoul Build

Build Order:

1) Build a Crypt

2) Build a Ziggurat

3) Build an Altar

4) Build a Tomb of Relics and a Ziggurat

5) Start training ghouls

6) Upgrade your ziggurat to a nerubian tower (when you have 20 lumber)

7) When you have enough lumber to tech, upgrade your Necropolis to a Halls of the Dead and bring out all of your ghouls to creep with your Death Knight (you should have about 5 of them).

Harassing: Basically, you should start creeping and wait to get harassed, since the orc is usually the one harassing. If your opponent likes to creep, you should do the usual split harassment and creeping with your ghouls and coil creeps. As for nerubian tower placement, you should always build your nerubian tower next to your goldmine as compared to building it outside since there is always a chance of a blademaster harassment which will definitely hurt you badly. Wolves are generally free experience so just surround them and kill them.

Creeping: Go for the usual camps with great offers like the Goblin Merchants of most maps.

Tier 2: The Orchish Horde is generally made up of big fat units with tons of health so AoE is not so effective. This makes the Dreadlord the best choice for a second hero. Sleep works best on orcs, since they have no useful form of dispel (disenchant and purge is out of the usual build of orcs since mass destroyers will wipe them out). This will allow you to prevent the Tauren Chieftain from casting his deadly shockwave. Furthermore, you get vampiric aura, which allows you to defeat grunts especially you have statues and scrolls of healing. Get to tier 3 as soon as possible for frenzy. And get some fiends with web if there are windriders. (get a second crypt if there is too much air).

Tier 3: Time for frenzy and abominations. You may want to get the Lich or the Crypt Lord as the 3rd hero.

Fighting in major battles: Sleep the heroes (TC in particular), Keep the statues and fiends alive (these are what a good orc player would target) by microing them away from windrider focus fire.

(Lost Temple): I would recommend using the Dreadlord fast expansion, and get the Death Knight as a second hero. This allows you to mass produce ghouls and abominations, which will allow you to totally overwhelm your opponent

Against Casters: Any orc player that uses casters is courting his own death. Get 2 Slaughterhouses and mass destroyers. In battle, devour every trace of bloodlust and wards. The orbs should be able to own his army.

Fiend Build

Build Order:

1) Build a Crypt

2) Build a Ziggurat

3) Build a Graveyard

4) Build an Altar

5) Build a Tomb of Relics

6) Train a Crypt Fiend

7) Build another Ziggurat

8) Buy a Rod of Necromancy when your hero is out

9) Summon beetles your first hero is a Crypt Lord and start creeping

10) Tech after your 3rd fiend

*(The order of building your graveyard and ziggurat really depends on whether you require a lot of lumber. If you are getting casters or frost wyrms, it is definitely good to have 3 ghouls for lumber since a lot of lumber is required to research upgrades.)

Harassing: No attempts at creep-jacking! However you may want to destroy orc burrows but a good player would be able to stall for some time by repairing them.

Creeping: Same old stuff, try to share damage (where the Death Knight takes damage from the melee units while the fiends take damage from the ranged units). This can be done by sending in a fiend first. All the creeps will start attacking it. Then you move it towards the ranged creeps. The melee units will attack the next nearest unit (which should be your Death Knight). Try not to use too many coils unless absolutely necessary until you get level 2 death coil (which makes coiling more worthwhile).

Tier 2: Get a Lich or a Crypt Lord (if you are in desperate need of melee) and statues. You should never stay in tier 2 for too long because this is when the orc becomes stronger with his raiders. If you encounter him during tier 2, try to take down the raiders so that you can micro your fiends backwards when they are hurt. Another thing to note about the Lich is that you should always get Frost Armour instead of Dark Ritual (ritualling fiends is not a very good idea). Cast it on your heroes and any fiends that are ensnared, that slows down his whole army by a lot.



Tier 3: It is time for the mighty frost wyrms! (or destroyers). Having frost wyrms usually means that you are going to win. Make sure that you have web ready at this time, you wouldn't want your opponent to slay those mighty bone dragons with wyverns or batriders. And manually web them down if you can (get the frost wyrms to stay at the back and kill those bats before they explode). Coil the Frost Wyrms (if the orc focus fires on it for too much, the rest of his army would die by then). With the shadepit, make sure that you get some shades. They are really useful scouts. A 3rd hero is really optional.|||-"This may sound bias since I usually get owned by undeads."

I find Night Elf exceptionally weak without the Beastmaster and the Panda. I also find Night Elf extremely weak if the elf doesn't try his best to get an expansion as soon as possible. The Night eLf sentinels is a race that wins not because of its heroes but because of the sheer number of its units (the beastmaster is an exception though). To beat the elves, there are 2 ways: The first is to produce as many units as them (you can achieve this with a Dread Lord Fast expansion on Lost Temple) and the second is to keep up the pressure on the Night Elf so that he cannot expand and creep (it is very important that the beastmaster doesn't level up). Elves are always vulnerable to rushing with mass ghouls from double crypt as long as they do not mass huntresses from 2 Ancient of Wars.

Build order:

1) Build a Crypt

2) Build a ziggurat

3) Build an Altar

4) Build a Tomb of relics

5) Build a ziggurat (remember that you should only consider getting a nerubian tower on non-tavern maps where demon hunters and wardens are likely to dash into your base).

6) Tech when you have enough lumber

7) Build a graveyard and another crypt when your tech is half done.

8) Tech to tier 3 and get gargolyes

9) Summon a Lich and a Crypt Lord (optional)

10) Research ghoul frenzy

11) Convert if necessary

Harassment: It is slightly different from how you would harass a human. You should not try to get too close since archers are ranged. Archers are also a lot weaker and this allows you to take them down with coil easily. The Dust of Appearance is very useful against Night Elf players who use shadowmeld. Summon some skeletons to weaken archers and finish them off with coils. After the initial harassment, bring every single ghoul that you have and pick up some lumber on your way to your opponent's base. I have discovered that nearly every single undead that defeats me on Turtle Rock pressures me throughout the game with their constant invasions on my base. Start killing wisps if they are on the outside and surround moonwells and take them down. When the archers return, start running towards them and beat the crap out of them. There is nearly no way to prevent the loss of any archers since you can just use the dust or run deep into his base to kill them. On the contrary, he should be killing only 1-2 ghouls at most if you have decent micro, since chasing a dying ghoul would be out of the question. With the help of the function return resources, it shouldn't be too difficult.

* Tip for elf: Always creep the green turtles outside the base next to yours first, followed by the green turtles outside your base. If you do it in the opposite order, a good player would have his ghouls knocking at your door by the time you are done and you would have to waste a Scroll of Town Portal. Also, on maps like Turtle Rock, always secure your expansions with 2 Ancient Protectors. This almost ensures that you do not lose your expansion unless your army is weaker by a lot.

Tier 2: I find the Solo Death Knight with the late lich very useful, since it allows you to get frenzy a lot more quicker. Your 2nd crypt should be done by now and you should be training gargolyes. You should be creeping as fast as possible. When you have more than 4 gargolyes, you should start your gargolye harassment if he doesn't have any Ancient Protectors. Kill as many wisps as possible and just fly over the trees when the elf returns home to defend. You can either choose to wait for a chance to strike again or rejoin your army to creep.

Tier 3: Get a Lich, an orb of corruption and ghoul frenzy. Do not get stone form, it is bugged (i noticed it when i was trying to get rid of haze) where you are unable to turn back into normal gargolyes for quite some time.

During the major battle: You should cast frost nova on the unit that is surrounded by lots of other units. Your ghouls should be running towards the archers while your gargolyes should be attacking the dryads and talons. And remember to kill the thunder hawk with the gargolyes. If you have not gained any significant advantage in the battle, its time for conversion!

Conversion: When your opponent is happily assuming that you will stick with gargolyes and ghouls, he sticks with his army of archers and dryads (which is not very good against big abominations). Meanwhile, you sneakily unsummon one of your crypts and build 2 Slaughterhouses, for mass aboms and a few destroyers to dispel cyclone and faerie fire.

* Another tip for elves: If you see very very few gargolyes harassing you, you should start getting suspecious. Send your hawk to scout the base. The counter to abom destroyer is chippo or hunt/dryad/hippo.

Major Battle 2: This time, you should see that your army is superior to his. With your few gargs, you should be able to take down the hippogryphs if there are any. If there are too many, then stop training destroyers. Meanwhile, you should be keeping your abominations alive with death coil while they smash the archers to bits.

If there are chims (2-3), it means that you're screwed. Start getting fiends if he has very few archers left or start getting gargolyes again if he has no hippogryphs.

A good way to hurt the elf is to rush his Big Tree when he is away. Most elves without expansions will not have Town portals with them all the time so you can make use of that to destroy the tree (it worked on me all the time when i had no expo).

(Lost Temple) - Fast Expansion

The Dreadlord fast expansion allows you to produce as much as the nightelf. Together with your superior heroes, winning with this shouldn't be a problem. However, beware of elves that spawn on your left and use 2 ancient of wars to pump out mass huntresses and rush.

Build Order:

1) Build a Crypt

2) Build a ziggurat

3) Build a graveyard

4) Build an altar

5) Build another zig

6) Build a Tomb of Relics

7) Train another acolyte

8) Buy Skeleton Rod and Blight

9) Summon 2 ziggurat and haunt the goldmine

Once again, there is the fiend approach to playing. Spiders are generally stronger than archers in early game since they can get healed and the archers can get killed with death coil. But in the late stages of the game, they lose miserably to archers , since they get longbows and marksmanship which make them a lot more deadlier. Any elf which uses huntresses is just plain noobish and you can stick with mass fiend + statues throughout the game. However, the elf usually comes up with 2 hard counters to fiends: They are mass archers + dotts or bears. Generally, bears can beat fiends without much effort. However, it is very easy to counter bears. You could either get frostwyrms, destroyers, banshees or abominations. Frostwyrms and destroyers can only be countered with hippogryphs (they must outnumber your fiends) and ground anti-air (archers or dryads) while banshees are nearly impossible to counter (you must take them out by focus firing with archers and dryads). Abominations are generally stronger than bears especially if you devour the roar with destroyers and you are able to coil your abominations. On the other hand, archer dott can be handled with fiend stats (it boils down to the players' skill). Get Aboms to kill the archers and destroyers to dispel cyclone and faerie fire. I shall not elaborate further since it is quite clear from that ghouls are a lot stronger compared to fiends.|||[Ud vs Ud]

This mirror revolves around the level of the Lich. The Lich is selected as the first hero because the Death Knight is unable to use Death Coil offensively. Frost nova is one of the most devasting AoE spells. It is so powerful that a level 5 lich and ghouls can defeat an army of ghoul + garg. Because of that, many gosus like silvernoma get destroyers.

Unit Combinations available: Ghoul + Destroyer (good because of magic immunity), Ghoul + Garg, Mass Ghouls

Build Order:

1) Build a Crypt

2) Build a ziggurat

3) Build an Altar

4) Build a Tomb of relics

5) Build a ziggurat

6) Tech when you have enough lumber

7) Build a graveyard while teching

8) Build a Crypt and a Slaughterhouse (or 2 Slaughterhouses without the crypt if you are getting mass destroyers)

9) Get the Death Knight as the 2nd hero and the Dread Lord as the 3rd hero (the skills depend on whether you are getting destroyers or sticking with ghouls). Carrion Swarm and Frost Nova are good for killing gargolyes.

Harassment: You can either harass with the Lich while creeping with ghouls or not harass at all. Basically you risk getting surrounded after a frost nova since the lich is very slow.

Creeping: This shouldn't be a problem with a Rod of necromancy. Just use dark ritual on any skeleton which is going to run out of time and has nearly full health.

Destroyer Build:

Tier 2: Get your second hero (getting the Dreadlord before the Death Knight is fine) and some statues. Your aim right now is to get a high level nova to destroy those gargolyes

Tier 3: Start massing destroyers.

In battle: Use your destroyers to suck mana from the statues and morph them one by one. If there are gargolyes, get your destroyers to fly in circles while you destroy the gargolyes with your AoE.



Ghoul Build:

Tier 3: Research ghoul frenzy. If your opponent gets destroyers, start getting gargolyes. Fiends are not a viable option since they can be killed by ghouls very quickly.

In battle: Split the gargolyes into 2 groups to take lesser damage from AoE spells. Chase the destroyers and cast your AoE spells on the ghouls/heroes. Getting a Dreadlord is also a good idea. You can sleep the Lich for the entire battle while your gargolyes kill the destroyers.

The most common way to slow down an undead's tech is to dash in and destroy his goldmine. It is usually done in a mirror. To stop this, you should try to build your zigs around the goldmine, so that it is not so easy to run in and out. You should do this to an opponent who has used up his TP.

Orbs are used quite often in mirrors, since there is usually a need to take down air units and destroyers cannot attack each other due to their magic immunity.



The fiend alternative is similar to how you would fight orcs with destroyers or frost wyrms. However, this strat is prone to getting rushed ghouls from 2 crypts if you do not have any spirit towers so build one before teching.

Build Order:

1) Build a Crypt

2) Build a Ziggurat

3) Build a Graveyard

4) Build an Altar

5) Build a Tomb of Relics

6) Train a Crypt Fiend

7) Build another Ziggurat

8) Buy a Rod of Necromancy when your hero is out

9) Tech after your 3rd fiend

10) At tier 2, build a slaughterhouse and a shadepit

11) At tier 3, build a boneyard.

A fiend mirror is all about proportions. If your opponent has more fiends, get more aboms. If your opponent has more aboms, get more frost wyrms. If your opponent has more frostwyrms, get more fiends.|||Sometimes, the neutral heroes are good when used with undeads. The Beastmaster is a good example. In the semi-finals of WCG korea 2004, Cherry-Lucifer nearly defeated Rex.Zacard with a Solo Beastmaster and mass destroyers. He started off with the typical fiend statue destroyer build. What makes this strategy so useful is that the summons are deadly against orcs and grunt shaman is not very useful against destroyers. The Naga Seawitch is also a good choice for a 3rd hero, since combining it with Frost Nova for nuking would really slow an enemy hero down by a lot. The Pandaren Brewmaster is another good choice when it comes to mass air battles. Hire him if you are having problems with mass hippogryphs or wyvern/bat. The Dark Ranger + Death Knight combination is extremely useful in creeping very quickly and for rushing humans. "

Ta Daaaa! Anyways, hope it helps.|||Awesome stuff! I haven't read it all yet but sofar its great. Where did you get this guide btw? :D

Since I just switched to UD recently this should help me immensly. Even though most of what I've read sofar is general/basic stuff, there are some usefil tips in there ;o|||The stuff about the Ud vs. Orc confuses me a bit. Sleep isn't more effective vs orc than it is vs. any race. The simple counter is just to attack that unit/hero once, it has nothing to do with anti-casters imo.

Also, about frost armor. I've hardly seen any1 get this (except once). It might be good against grunts but dark ritual is just too important for nova. And you can sacrifice skellies, u dont have to sacrifice fiends :P

Also, even though grunts have high HP, nova is still great vs. them. Fiend FF with orb makes even grunts go down very fast. Hell, nova is great vs. anything :S But I'm not gonna argue too much about Frost armor, I do see the potential of it. :D

I've seen ghoul starts vs orc, but the player i've seen do it almost immediately switches to fiends later b/c ghouls just suck vs orc from t2 onwards. Either mass windies or chainwave > ghouls =O I agree though, ghoul surrounds vs orc in t1 is pretty deadly. If you would go DL vs orc at all, I'd suggest getting him first mb? When I played orc, I would occassionaly get the sh|t owned out of me by Dl/ghouls with sleep surrounds ><

Btw, in UD mirror. I'm a total noob at this matchup, but I got in one recently, and I went ghouls. However the opponent went fiends. He went standard dk/fiends. His fiends dominated my ghouls just like fiends can dominate grunts due to coil and fiend micro. Thoughts? Ghouls or fiends in mirror? B/c I seriously have no idea. :)|||The guide seems quite ok overall, although there's some stuff that sounds kinda wierd (speaking of which, why the hell does he say Cherry-Lucifer and Rex.Zacard?).

If you go DL vs Orc, I'd say DL dual crypt ghouls is best.

In mirror, both ghouls and fiends are possible. If you go ghouls, you want to tech fast with Lich, go kill some acos when he's halfway through his tech, and attack at once when you have frenzy before he has destros (and get gargs). When going fiends, basically your aim is to survive til you have trihero and a fiend/dessy mix, which beats ghoul/garg lategame. Oh, and watch out for expos, they're very popular in mirrors.

Edit: And googling "warcraft" + "guide" + "undead" - "world" will probably get you lots of guides, if you're interested.|||Quote:








The guide seems quite ok overall, although there's some stuff that sounds kinda wierd (speaking of which, why the hell does he say Cherry-Lucifer and Rex.Zacard?).




Because the guide was written 2 years ago and thats the names they went by back then.|||klol, that explains the other wierd stuff (cough frosties cough) too i spose..|||ya, i know. And the part where he tells you not to get Stone Form because it is bugged. That was a couple of patches ago lolz. I downgraded my WC3 and watched a couple of his replays, and I g2 say that the guy's micro pwns. Im pretty sure he qualified for ESWC 2005 for Singapore too.