What i did was, i builded a ziggerut at my workers upgraded it to frost tower and had my Death Knight (which i healed my workers with) camp the base together with all my spiders, but before i even got all this he has taken huge advance with resources.. Is there any way i can neutralize this stupid tac tic? (also had dust on my hero futher into game) Still not enough to take him down.. In the end i had a nice army, but not enough resources to build stronger units so he wins on hes air force.
Help me please
|||agree, I'm having lots of troubles with them (playing NE), sometimes they just kill all my whisps and i cant do NOTHING, just hit im and when have low hp just disapears, heals and come back.Last time i've got killed without made those sentinel birds... Is frustrating.|||Quote:
agree, I'm having lots of troubles with them (playing NE), sometimes they just kill all my whisps and i cant do NOTHING, just hit im and when have low hp just disapears, heals and come back.
Last time i've got killed without made those sentinel birds... Is frustrating.
yeah... there are ways of fighting him, but they take away resources, giving your opponent a resource advantage..|||A few well-placed moonwells and TOWs near trees will block BM from reaching your harvesting wisps
@ topic creator:
BM + Windrider(or it's called wyvern?I forgot which name is for ROC and which is for TFT) is a popular and easy to use 1v1/2v2 strategy on battle.net, though it's still counter-able with UD.
1.Get DK + fiends(don't even try ghouls or gargs, bats pwn gargs and all light-air big time)
2.Get Lich, Frostnova is very useful against collision-less air units and the spell has no target cap unlike blizz or dreadlord batswarm
3.Whenever you fight windriders, try web and run away from webbed windriders, the webbed windridersare immobilized, so he has to wait for the webs to expire or fight you with unwebbed units, giving you a huge advantage in battle.
4.Get death pact at level 4, I once pwned a chasing BM with less than 50 HP DK by death pact'ed one of my aboms and won the game
5.Build a shade, the sacrifice pit is cheap(75 gold and 150 lumber) and it will be a WTF moment for him when you nuke his invisible BM to death.|||Well, and now UD is replied... Can someone give the poor NE a few hints against him? :(|||yeah, i gotta admit, blademaster is annoying as hell.
interesting tactic with blocking him off with the moonwells and what not.
Is there no easier way though?|||First, lets mention that orcs win near 60% of the time at gosu level and his the most imba matchup of all. Blade master is in my opinion, still the most imba hero out there. He as the best DPS, is not surroundable until his mana pool his empty, as the best armor, as the best movement and attack speed of all and his only con (being a meele attacker with few HP) is partially compensated when he his under the effect of spirit link. What else? His critical strike is the only ability wich effectiveness increases with items. I watched a game lately in EI where Orc was playing versus UD. Bm had +40 damage thanks to claws, orb and the kodos aura. This at level 5 (with critical strike level3) gives a 160dmg increase output to damage 15% of the time. If we take into account he is level 5, his basic damage is 33 to 55. This means he makes 292 to 380 damage 15% of the time.
This being said, you will understand that no one wants to face a hero with such powerfull damage. The best way to deal with orc when playing undead is to destroy them fast. The best strategy is to mixt basic units with lich and to tower rush his base around 6'oclock. You will usually be able to get lich to level 2 (taking nova and frost armor is a must). Bring a skull and 1-2 acos and tower close enough to his base but far enough so that burrows cant attack your towers. When he tries to focus 1 unit, use frost armor on it and micro it out. When he tries to flee, use frost nova. If the blade master ever buys boots, one should consider selling his teleport and buy a pair of boots. Anyways, the teleport wont be of any use since if you teleport, you will probably have lost the game already.
Else, you will want to rely on basic build with undead with 3 heros (dk with lich, Cl, Pl, Dr or Dl). Check out Dangpanda's reply for more info since he as some good cues. Banshees are also interesting to have. Curse makes units miss 30% of the time wich helps a lot versus Bm. Also, if you can successfully possess 2-3 wolf riders, you will be able to pawn Bm quite easily.
But, as i said before, as long as Blizzard does'nt solve the issues co9ncerning Bm, the best shot to beating Orc is a good old tier 1 tower push.
I hardly believe that keeping windwalk duration at 20sec for lvl 2-3 would balance the game a bit more since the main problem versus Bm is that with WW level 2, he can follow you as a shade and keep harrassing you to hell.|||To solve blademaster acolyte harassment, build your zigs 1 space apart all around the goldmine. Heroes can't pass between 2 zigs 1 space apart.
Now, I lied. Because in the time it would take to build enough zigs, there's a blademaster in your base. So what you have to do is use some other buildings to help you out. What other buildings do you have so early in the game? A graveyard, altar, crypt, and shop.
Now, a zig directly next to any building will also prevent a hero from passing by, and a trees are the same way. You can build your crypt and altar against the trees on each side of your gold mine and then fill in the gaps with ziggurats.
This wont work, however, because your hero has the same problem as theirs does, except in the other direction. That is, you might trap your hero and you might trap your crypt fiends behind your gold mine.
So instead, you have to use your shop and your graveyard (they don't make anything that can get trapped) in combination with your zigs to make a hero-tight seal all around your gold mine. This is worth spending an hour or so by yourself in different maps learning. Sometimes you'll find that you have to remove a tree w/ a ghoul before you can place a building in a good spot for the seal etc... But it's definitely worth the time investment.|||Actually, I prefer to just make a Nerubian Tower between your Necropolis and the Gold Mine. When the Blademaster comes and start to attack your Acolyte, remove it from the Gold Mine and start to run around the mine with it, while hitting with your DK, some ghouls and whichever other fiends you've got. The BM will be very slowed and will take more time to hit the acolyte, so, when your acolyte hits red HP, he should be on the other side of the gold mine, so put him back into the gold mine and he will be 'teleported' to the other side. This way you seriously delay the BM while hitting him. Do not forget to build a Tomb of Relics so you get Dust. Even if he is at green/yellow HP, use dust if he gets invis next to your gold mine, as you can still hit him and he will still be slowed. This way you force him to leave your base without even killing a single acolyte if you are smart enough.
This time he probably won't have more than 3 or 4 grunts into his base, so just make 4 fiends, tech, and attack him. If you make it well, the Blademaster will still be healing when you attack, and even if he burrows, you are delaying his resources, thus making to him what he wanted to do with you. Choosing the Blademaster, he won't have neither Wolves, Healing Wave or even a War Stomp to stop you, so getting him on a fight with his Blademaster injured can really turn the tides.
Unfortunately, everytime I get the Blademaster my enemy knows how to counter it, so I kill only 2 or 3 peons until getting away. At this time I could have a lvl 2 Far Seer or even lvl 2 first hero TC (they are not so popular at first hero choice but it can work if you creep race). If you prevent him from killing stuff at your base, and even catch his base off guard with your fiends, you can easily win.
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For Night Elves, make use of Detonate. Just have a tight base with moon wells protecting your wisps (with auto healing), and let BM hit it. You can even finish off your creep camp before going for help if you are lucky. When you come, try to use your harassing skills against the Blademaster and force him to invis out or run. Dust from the shop also works.
However, if you didn't build your shop or the moon wells are too far from your wisps, detonating can be good (just detonate when wisp is in red, you lose wood but he doesn't get exp and lose mana). In a tight base, it is easy to trap the Blademaster inside, and if he has no mana at all, either he dies or wastes a 350 gold TP. Both of them are good ones.
Well, this topic is a bit old, but I wonder if I could help. Im not pro, but I think this works out, at least against non-pro Blademasters. Sometimes, if your enemy is a newb, not killing anything really makes a BM user to panic.|||I don't remember but what units have a freeze ability A.K.A ensnare and others|||Quote:
I don't remember but what units have a freeze ability A.K.A ensnare and others
Stops channeling:
Humans: Sorceress - Polymorph (uncastable on heroes)
Humans: Dragonhawk Rider - Aerial Shackles (uncastable on ground units)
Humans: Mountain King - Storm Bolt
Humans: Mountain King - Bash (uncastable on air units)
Orcs: Raider - Ensnare
Orcs: Tauren Chieftain - War Stomp (uncastable on air units)
Orcs: Witch Doctor - Stasis Trap (uncastable on air units)
Orcs: Shadow Hunter - Hex
Night Elves: Druid of the Talon - Cyclone (uncastable on air units)
Night Elves: Keeper of the Grove - Entangling Roots (uncastable on air units)
Undead: Crypt Fiend - Web (uncastable on ground units)
Undead: Dread Lord - Sleep
Undead: Dread Lord - Inferno (uncastable on air units)
Undead: Crypt Lord - Impale (uncastable on air units)
Neutral: Dark Ranger - Silence
Neutral: Dark Ranger - Charm (uncastable on heroes)
Neutral: Goblin Tinker - Cluster Rockets
Neutral: Pit Lord - Doom (uncastable on heroes)
Neutral: Fire Lord - Soul Burn
Neutral: Fire Lord - Volcano
From these, Dragonhawk Rider, Mountain King, Raider, Witch Doctor, Tauren Chieftain, Druid of the Talon, Keeper of the Grove, Crypt Fiend, Crypt Lord, Dread Lord, Cluster Rockets and Volcano "stuns" or immobilizes the target.|||so did we find a solution?|||Solution for BM rushes vs undead? My post above lol... it can work, but I haven't tested it against real pro blademasters... also, it won't prevent you from being crushed on tier 2. But it is the only thing to do.|||This strategy guide seems pretty relevant:
http://www.wcreplays.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99476
Blocking works well if you don't want to spend the resources on a nerubian tower. If you mess it up (test with a hero), just upgrade one nerub and be ready to move acolytes through a tight spot, i.e. 2 zigs one space apart. Auto-attack an easy creep camp while moving your aco. If you know it's coming, make a 6th acolyte so you won't get shorted on gold while teching.
As for counter-attacking, it is very important to scout first. If he made grunts, he should be using them to creep green camps while his blademaster harasses and that will leave them weakened. However if he only uses them for defense he should be using towers instead. If he does tower (more than 2), don't attempt to take them down but take map control instead - expand ASAP. Unless it's Terenas Stand, a blademaster has trouble clearing a gold mine solo so you can get shades out before he clears it with tier 2 units.
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