Saturday, April 14, 2012

How to counter this strategy?

[:1]I have developed a strategy for night elves that I very rarely see beaten in one on one:

http://www.helium.com/tm/243041/deve...y-often-simple

Briefly, it is about getting very quickly an altar, two ancients of war, a huntress hall, a priestess of the moon with aura and up to 50 food of huntresses.

Up to now I was only beaten with it when a blademaster managed to kill my priestess before huntresses appeared - but now I counter it by having the priestess wait near the main tree that beats up the blademaster. What would a pro do against such a strategy?

BTW, often when I win with it people complain "damn masser" or something like that. Is it considered cheating to mass one type of units?|||No its just considered extremely lame.

You'll get beaten by a decent orc, one who knows how to micro his burrows (attacking, repairing, switching wounded peons in, etc.) which will eat your hunts, especially if his burrow placement is good. If he manages to get wyverns fast enough and survive t1, your gonna have a tough time.|||He doesn't need wyverns...FS+Grunts+headhunters+sentry towers can do the job...most of the time at least...|||vs. Humans: Huntresses will be very strong against footmen or riflemen, so it's again an easy match

since when are huntresses very strong against rifleman?|||I would not directly know what you could do to counter this, but I think with UD I could prolly beat you ... Try to survive .. get banshee + gargoyls, get destro's, smth like that, if I would get wyrms then you are really screwed ... But I dunno how fast the build is you use...|||Bah, it's not that hard to conquer. Once you get air, the game is over. Or you could get AoE siege, like mortars, demos, ballista...

In tier 1, ranged units can work aswell because of their superior range (although they take extra damage from hunts). When defending your base you could just take cover behind your buildings. The hunts would have a hard time getting in, and when they do, only a few hunts will be able to attack your army while everyone of your ranged will have a clear shot.

...did that make sense?|||Ud will pwn you in any way.



Ghoul rush >

Fiend micro >|||"No its just considered extremely lame."

Well, so I would not expect that form people being beaten by a lame strategy, I would expect to hear it from people who have beaten me.

"You'll get beaten by a decent orc, one who knows how to micro his burrows (attacking, repairing, switching wounded peons in, etc.) which will eat your hunts, especially if his burrow placement is good."

Usually agianst orc I kill most of his army, and then he retreats to burrows (I usually come to his base and start killing burrows, see him come with army and go out, to kill army). Then I go in with huntresses and kill burrows, and once I lost most huntresses and he lost most burrows, I tp out. Then I rebuild army, while he lost too many peons and burrows to rebuild quickly.

"If he manages to get wyverns fast enough and survive t1, your gonna have a tough time."

When I know wyverns are coming, I bring in some archers. It counters them most of the time.

"FS+Grunts+headhunters+sentry towers can do the job"

I did not fight such an army before, but I believe that if met in the field I will manage to defeat it. Or bring some glaive throwers to get him out of base.

"since when are huntresses very strong against rifleman?"

I usually beat the riflemen. Huntresses are fast and get bonus vs. medium armor.

"I would not directly know what you could do to counter this, but I think with UD I could prolly beat you ... Try to survive .. get banshee + gargoyls, get destro's, smth like that, if I would get wyrms then you are really screwed ... But I dunno how fast the build is you use..."

Undead rarely survive to tier 3. He would bring gargoyles, but I ignore them and go on to kill his land army, while I bring in archers. Once archers come his land army is dead, and there are some gargoyles who quickly die to archers.

"Or you could get AoE siege, like mortars, demos, ballista..."

Yes, I was just now defeated by an orc with catapults, but this rarely happen. I would usually close the distance and kill the catapults, and he rarely has more then one or two before I strike.

"Ud will pwn you in any way.



Ghoul rush >

Fiend micro >"

Sorry, but ghoul rush simply has no chance. I faced several, and the ghouls die almost instantly - even if I have few huntresses. Then he tries to run, but huntresses outrun the ghouls and defeat them. If he would come very early, I would have to cover under the main tree until I get about 3-4 huntresses.

I still did not face fiends with this strategy, and if the opponent is good at micro then it might work.|||Quote:




Sorry, but ghoul rush simply has no chance. I faced several, and the ghouls die almost instantly - even if I have few huntresses. Then he tries to run, but huntresses outrun the ghouls and defeat them. If he would come very early, I would have to cover under the main tree until I get about 3-4 huntresses.

I still did not face fiends with this strategy, and if the opponent is good at micro then it might work.






I supposed you didn't have received a nice ghoul rush, then. Rods of noobmancy is pretty lame too.|||dude dont underestimate undead...

Most UD's tech fast to tier 3. They have a naturally good base defense (noob tower + blight). And fiends/dk with good micro will beat hunts...with lich definetely.

And don't underestimate ghoul rushes either. There are two kinds of ghoul rushes: awful ones and 1337 ones. You're prolly referring to the awful ones, where the ghouls are hardly microed at all and get stuck inbetween your AoW's and die. Usually he'll have dk aura b4 he attacks, so hunt speed bonus is negated slightly...

And what is a "sentry tower". Orc has one tower, and its called the watch tower... o.-

headhunters suck. period. sucky range which makes them vulnerable to hunt attack. And your not gonna have a huge meatshield to block the hunts if your buying headies either...

For orc in general, if you can get to tier 2, get a beastary or 2 up and get a 2nd hero out, your fine.

And once again, against a good orc with good burrow micro, your not gonna have such an easy time "killing his burrows and then TPing out".|||Quote:






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dude dont underestimate undead...



And what is a "sentry tower". Orc has one tower, and its called the watch tower... o.-

.




really? my mistake must've gotten it confused with some other game...

if HH sucks can't you just rely on the towers and catapults to support it?|||yeah but catapults are tier 2 and towers cost a buttload of lumber. You'll be compromising in other areas such as a beastary and a 2nd hero which also cost lotsa lumber. Could work tho maybe. Haven't played in a while xD|||*ignores all the wrong stuff posted so far and responds to original post*

I didn't read it in detail, but based on your summary, it's gonna get hard to pull off at higher levels of play. Mass hunts is a viable, though cheesy strat in most matchups though, the main thing you need to adapt is your hero choice. If you do so, you should be ok against anything but human. Mass hunts is getting more popular again lately, probably mostly due to strife.

In mirror you're fine with potm, just keep canceling his lores. Add optional glaives and offensive towers if you have the advantage.

Againt undead, you'll be ok with potm against ghoul users, but against good fiend users, you absolutly need kotg or warden first, else you'll have no chance against fiend micro with aura. In both cases, keeping map control early and getting an expo is essential. Against ghoul users, don't forget to add a couple of archers when he reaches tier two to fend off gargs.

Against orc, potm probably won't work either. A good orc will be able to survive til tier two without getting a disadvantage, and then harass you with wyvs and get katas, raiders, sh with wards or tc for chainwave and so on which basically means you've lost due to his tech advantage. But if you get bstm or kotg you can keep up constant pressure well enough to make it possible.

Getting mass hunts at all is not a good idea against human, whatever the hero, because they can just tower up as soon as they scout it, hold you off with water elementals, and tech for pretty much anything that will own you: sorcs, mortars, hawks and so on...

So basically, go ahead against elf, against undead and orc just adjust your heroes, but I wouldn't recommend it against human. About the opponents complaining, don't worry, random people on bnet are always whining when they lose, especially when they get beaten by massers, tower techers and the like, it's normal just ignore them.|||Yeah, get a Warden and only xpent the hero point when u see if he chose ghoul or fiend. AoE is obviously for Ghoul.



Or just have a panda|||panda would still have probs against fiends tho better than potm. warden is fine gainst both though as is kotg.|||quit the spam, ORC.|||Vs a decent human player you will be slaughtered. 1 or 2 towers, with footmen or rifles and water elementals will hold u till tier 2, then mortatrs will eat ure hunts, then tier 3, then knights will take your base.

loosing to mass hunts with human is shameful|||Well I beat such like strat with UD an day ago, it might be a bit slower then your strat, but it was still usefull what I did (wasn't much really) I just retreated a lott into my base, using my towers (nerub) to hold them off, slaying as much hunts as I could in the mean time (using fiends) then making pults and teching an bit for damage, then the pults just ate away the hunts while I teched for frosty's, wich was gg by then.

The hard part of this strat was to keep alive in the beginning, but because I retreated in time and had my units picked closely (I also had one garg or smth) it wasn't an big problem, with my DK I healed the almost dead fiends, and retreated them to heal.

I also used necro's to come up with more troops.

Greetz,

TheOneNeo|||Mass Huntresses is nothing new, nor really all that original. It's best application is on a very small map, usually 1v1 with a rush strategy in mind. PotM is actually not the best hero for this sort of thing because you CAN be outrushed by any race with someone who knows what he's doing.

Wardens are usually the better hero choice because they can harass the enemy more effectively, and retain relevance against the 3 out of 4 race types. Against Orc, you'll really want a Keeper, not a PotM.



Huntresses WILL lose against a Human using equal numbers of Rifles. It was so before Rifles got the huge boost and the armor type changes, and it's even more of the case now. The sheer range advantage of Rifles on their LongRifle upgrade is such that they WILL kill your Huntresses faster, and master micro will make the Rifles win more. Focus fire with a Dwarf or Mage hero (with Water Elementals) will own your Hunts quite hard.

Don't do it.

The other way a Human could own you is by rushing you with early Footmen before you can even get the Hunts online. There are ways to protect your Moonwells so as to avoid this, but the Wisp kill is hard to equalize.

With a 2v2 game, it's a more useful strategy just for the speed coordination with another Elf ally, but the benefits are still rather dubious.

In short, yes, it is a lame strategy, and it's lame because it's so easy to defeat. You can "sucker punch" someone with this, and you can even do it as a "Huntress-Switch" midgame, but an early Huntress rush is a dubious strategic proposition.|||zomg scrubhuman? u live? o_O|||My Paladin casted Resurrection on us. I was lucky enough to have a skeleton of my remains left over to animate.|||The awakening of the old gods.





Now, who the hell are you?|||never heard of the bastard!!!|||Listen to the Ipod, it plays the music of truth! i didnt think there was much to add, but ScrubHuman's olsdschool perspective was also nice to read, though i cant recall seeing him before either... (then again, the early days are kind of a blur to me and i havnt been active everywhere)|||Yeah, he was here a while back. Wasn't the coolest poster, but I do remember him for some reason o_O

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